Open Letter to Catfightreport

[JohnMoog]

In the entertainment world, of which female fighting is but a small offshoot, she can’t beat them up, but Juliana is light years hotter than the beasts of Catzreview.

Though I know it's not intended, that may be taken as faint praise.  Judging by their latest attempt at domestication, there are beasts that are light years hotter than the beasts of Catzreview.

[G Star]

Trying to sell videos at a premium price in an age where people have access to an almost unlimited amount of free videos, is to be fair a bad business model.

It doesn't matter how much it costs a producer to make a video, it is only worth what people are willing to pay for it and clearly $30+ isn't working. If you can't make your product for a price that people are willing to pay then your basically screwed, that's just how business works. Wouldn't it be better to sell lots of videos at a lower price, rather than selling a few at a higher price? After all it seems the sites are getting plenty of hits, just not plenty of people that are willing to part with $30+ but they might be willing to part with a lesser amount.

Personally I've only bought a few catfight videos and the production value on them was terrible, considering the low cost of HD recording equipment and video editing software there really is no excuse, you could do all of that on a phone in 1080p. People aren't going to pay $30+ for some VHS effort when they can find a lifetime supply of free fights on youtube in similarly poor quality.

[Queen Of Mean]

It doesn't matter how much it costs a producer to make a video, it is only worth what people are willing to pay for it and clearly $30+ isn't working. If you can't make your product for a price that people are willing to pay then your basically screwed, that's just how business works. Wouldn't it be better to sell lots of videos at a lower price, rather than selling a few at a higher price? After all it seems the sites are getting plenty of hits, just not plenty of people that are willing to part with $30+ but they might be willing to part with a lesser amount.

The problem is that video's don't sell in a large enough quantity, as the analogy goes Pile High Sell Cheap, unfortunately in this industry that is not the case, it's not polite to say "Hi guys today I browsed the Chickfight website and bought two full length video's showing women sexually competing with each other."

The comments would be everything from "You are a sicko" to "Get lost" and those would be the politest of them, the issue is that yes you can get free video's but with the Justice Department on a kick against file sharing site's that may not be the case for very long, I know for a fact that X Video's has several Cali Wildcats video's in their entirety posted on the server.

If you want the better quality material, done by talented wrestlers to a standard that is acceptable and REALIST, then you have to pay a rate that reflects the level of work that goes into the creation of the video.

Volume doesn't exist in the cat fight video industry therefore, it has to be based on the quality of the product.

[HB]

All this blather about who is hotter than who ( coming from I'm sure, Clooney and Pitt lookalikes ) ... what does it matter if the product is bad?  

It seems those who love to wax poetic value FC videos which do seem to feature some nice looking ladies, but not long ago a free preview of one of their efforts was linked here, something set in a work out studio.  The preview, although shot in HD, was laughably bad, all these ridiculous close ups of pumping asses and thrusting crotches...almost as if they were parodies of What Men Want.

If that is held as the standard, that's like crowning Transformers : Dark Of The Moon as the greatest movie of all time since it has excellent photography and state of the art effects, while Casablanca is in black and white.  

And who said Crystal Films is "where erotic goes to die" ? Huh ? While their "real fight" segments featured more girl-next door and let's face it, close to white trash ladies ( there were a few standouts, Andi for one....but more than likely the more...mellifous...among us would likely feel she's a hag since she was a bit of a bigger girl ) , more often than not their scenario catfights were excellent, featuring attractive, if not cover model caliber women, in some very fetish driven erotic fights.  Apples and oranges folks.  Gotta peek under the hood.  It ain't always the looks.

You can post ten paragraphs written as if you're The Architect from The Matrix Reloaded ( you know, he enters the film late and absolutely stops it dead with a hilariously convoluted speech which contains a few "ergos" and "Vis-à-vis" just to make sure we know he's SMART   but the opinion is just opinion, not carved in stone    

The only conclusion one can draw: 95% of female fighting fans are either broke ass dirtbags who would almost never actually purchase a video, or destitute dirt bags who really can't afford them. They content themselves with the free shit on forums like these or the actual production sites from which they will never buy, just look and stroke. I believe almost all the clamor for video samples are from this chattering class. They "vote" in polls. They read and write stories. They are endlessly "curious" about the fantasies of others, creating a ledge for the posers to stand on. They fucking "chat'" for God's sake (Facebook started as a way for Harvard students to cyber socialize, not the dimwits who hang out on this board. Wrong tool in the wrong hands.) What they don't do is buy fucking videos.

This makes them not so much consumers as free-loading dirt bags...

... Just look at this forum. It will tell you all you need to know. This is the public.

For those nuggets of wisdom more than anything, one has to wonder who in the hell are you, what are you doing here, and why don't you find a crowd to preach to who won't just constantly roll their eyes while you just proclaim, and proclaim...

[gboxuk]

Surely you can get people to sponsor this stuff.  DWW did some boxing set in the grounds of a London mansion.  Excellent spectacle, with an enthusiastic audience, fighters who knew the business and gave the lot.  The costs would surely be sorted as with the income from these.  I don`t think these days you can expect to do this effectively on your own.

But it would help enormously if you had a big country house. Maybe somebody here has!

[SlugLord]

Perhaps the reputation of female wrestling producer's of the past and present misrepresenting and/or not delivering the product has placed a negative reputation on the industry. People are willing to pay if they can find a trusted source.

[catfightreport]

I believe "some" people are willing to pay and thank the heavens they exist.

But, in reality, how much more can be done?   What hasn't been done?

Almost every scenario imaginable has been thought up.   Almost every outfit possible has been donned.  Some of the most beautiful girls, and some of the best skilled, have competed alike on the female wrestling mats and rings across the world.

Perhaps Ofecteau will never find a company as good as those in the past or like the Foxy Combat's of the present.  It's possible Ofecteau has hit his ceiling.  It's almost quite impossible to think that a huge legion of fans are going to spring up, and start buying $30 videos and subscriptions like wildfire, no matter the quality, and no matter the strong wordage and appeals by Ofecteau on these matters.

The tastes in this industry are too wide apart.   There is no consensus.   On anything. 

As for lowering prices, my argument comes from a pure standpoint of free market economics.  A Mickey Mantle baseball card has value because of it's scarcity.   There is no scarcity in the female wrestling business, and therefore, the prices must come down, and will come down.   

Anything that catches fire will be duplicated.   It's best to understand this now rather than later.  Bringing down the prices will most certainly weed some producers and models out.  However, those that survive, will experience greater profits, and will be delivering more value to a wider audience since more people will pay with the price being closer to it's true market value.

There is no industry leader.   Those who jump to the forefront will reap the rewards.   

If the industry can continue with the model of $30 videos and $30 subscription fees, I applaud them, and have little doubt, whatsoever, that those who are paying those amounts are getting value for their investment. 

Is it enough?   Can the pie continue to be divided amongst this small contingent?

No, in my opinion, the pie must expand.

The casual fan will not pay $30 for a video or subscription.   The "casual fan" is the majority of this business in my opinion.

It's also my opinion that producers should prepare now rather than later.   Industries throughout time have always decried those who "undercut" them and bring prices down for consumers.   However, they are reformers, like it or not, and the same will be true in our industry as it is in all others.

[Queen Of Mean]

I believe "some" people are willing to pay and thank the heavens they exist.


The tastes in this industry are too wide apart.   There is no consensus.   On anything.  

As for lowering prices, my argument comes from a pure standpoint of free market economics.  A Mickey Mantle baseball card has value because of it's scarcity.   There is no scarcity in the female wrestling business, and therefore, the prices must come down, and will come down.  

Anything that catches fire will be duplicated.   It's best to understand this now rather than later.  Bringing down the prices will most certainly weed some producers and models out.  However, those that survive, will experience greater profits, and will be delivering more value to a wider audience since more people will pay with the price being closer to it's true market value.

Sorry that doesn't seem to be the case mainly as video company's come and go, we have had some who produced excellent video's then disappeared, the price will remain the same due to the social implications in the acceptance of the fetish, I would say prices are stable with some people trialling reductions to increase sale's, it would be interesting to find out from one of those producers if lowering prices changed the bottom line or merely created a loss leader situation.

There is no industry leader.   Those who jump to the forefront will reap the rewards.  

If the industry can continue with the model of $30 videos and $30 subscription fees, I applaud them, and have little doubt, whatsoever, that those who are paying those amounts are getting value for their investment.  

That might be how you view it but if the content is good enough people will pay whatever they feel is necessary to purchase the product, you might liken it to the ice cream effect, if you have the taste for it then you will buy what you need when you need it and at what ever price it is selling for. Rarity value only applies to older material on vhs that is now harder to track down and might contain gems, the internet has made that material more available in the interim until the kick on file sharing websites gets going, one user has permission to upload a video he has made out of DWW material, but no file sharing site like Dailymotion will now host it, for obvious reasons I might hasten.

Most update payment schemes do not give value for money, I doubt even Ultimate Surrender does because once you've seen one of their matches you've seen them all the participants are maybe different, but the scenario and the result remains the same.

Is it enough?   Can the pie continue to be divided amongst this small contingent?

No, in my opinion, the pie must expand.

The casual fan will not pay $30 for a video or subscription.   The "casual fan" is the majority of this business in my opinion.

It's also my opinion that producers should prepare now rather than later.   Industries throughout time have always decried those who "undercut" them and bring prices down for consumers.   However, they are reformers, like it or not, and the same will be true in our industry as it is in all others.

I disagree strongly, there are very few "casual fan's" involved in this, you have to be committed to female combat in order to know which producers work for a living and those who coast through producing formulaic video's with low caliber performers, shot on poor equipment.

This site bears that out with the number of users who actually know their onions about the performers who do the video's, who can identify video's from short snatches on Youtube and who in some case's may have session wrestled them.

Until the industry has volume prices cannot come down as the producers do not and will not make an adequate return on the investment required to prepare and shoot a video, there is very little free market involved in the female fighting video industry, the only free market dictum is " You produce a quality product that appeals to the buyers and they will buy it, produce a poor quality product and the fan's will s**t on it and not buy it."

You might like to push down prices CFR I have no idea why, but I suggest you straw poll the forum ask the users when they last bought a video? ( no file share rips offs), Who it was by? and did they feel they got value for money?

Lets actually ask the people who buy what they feel about this situation, do they believe that prices should come down at the expense of quality? Or do they prefer quality with a price premium?

[catfightreport]

You state "until the industry has volume".

How do you think that is going to be achieved if prices are not lowered?

You also say we should ask those who are purchasing videos.  So, let's ask.  Would you rather pay
$30 for a video or $5?  Do you sit around at night and worry about the producer making a living or do you
simply want a good product for a good price?

When you go to the supermarket do you think, golly gee, I will buy an extra $20 of lettuce today to help Tom out?

If you do, it's rare, and only in rare circumstances.   You make transactions all day long.  It's not your focus.   

Smart producers will continue to make a living.  They will increase profits by lowering prices. They will sell 1,000 to 10,000 videos a month for $1-$5 and also make income in other ways.  How many of Double Trouble's old stock do you think sells on a daily basis?  How about the Academy?   How about DWW?  Would it be better to lower the prices on those videos to say, $2.50 or $5.00, or should they stay the same price they are now?

And don't give me the thing about them being old and "rare".   Rarity only has value when there is demand.

Producers and fans are obviously free to do as they choose.   

My opinion was asked and I want to be fair to both the producers and the fans because I serve both. 

[catfightreport]

And, btw, I did interview the fans.

I'm probably one of the only people in the history of this business to do so:
http://www.catfightreport.com/2011/08/interview-with-female-wrestling-and.html

(The above can still be filled out)

[Queen Of Mean]

You state "until the industry has volume".

How do you think that is going to be achieved if prices are not lowered?

You also say we should ask those who are purchasing videos.  So, let's ask.  Would you rather pay
$30 for a video or $5?  Do you sit around at night and worry about the producer making a living or do you
simply want a good product for a good price?

When you go to the supermarket do you think, golly gee, I will buy an extra $20 of lettuce today to help Tom out?

If you do, it's rare, and only in rare circumstances.   You make transactions all day long.  It's not your focus.   

Smart producers will continue to make a living.  They will increase profits by lowering prices. They will sell 1,000 to 10,000 videos a month for $1-$5 and also make income in other ways.  How many of Double Trouble's old stock do you think sells on a daily basis?  How about the Academy?   How about DWW?  Would it be better to lower the prices on those videos to say, $2.50 or $5.00, or should they stay the same price they are now?

And don't give me the thing about them being old and "rare".   Rarity only has value when there is demand.

Producers and fans are obviously free to do as they choose.   

My opinion was asked and I want to be fair to both the producers and the fans because I serve both. 

Actually no one in this business will ever sell that sort of numbers you are quoting because simply there are not enough purchasers, that's a simple law of supply and demand. Supply  expands to meet demand.

Ego, if the number of buyers are low then the demand is low, so the supply is low and prices will remain as you term it "high."

Lowering prices without any form of assurance you will get back the low short term revenue will merely create a loss leader position and endanger the financial health of your organisation by depleting short term income based upon a perceived increase in turnover through discounting.

Historically a loss leader position can be tolerated for a limited term and then prices have to rise, or the new position of sales generated can meet any losses incurred.

What you are suggesting is a mass discounting by producers of their products in order to try and break the market floor as it stands, what it would more likely do is break the producers as with a lower turnover in the interim, new production would have to cease as all the revenues generated by sales would have go to meet existing commitments. Thus no one would be able fund any new video's in house until the new volume of sale's at the lower prices increased their turnover to meet older levels of turnover at the higher prices.

[titwiler]

There is a way to at least marginally reduce prices, minimize the producer's exposure to risk, and provide content targeted to the most specific nuances of the fetish.  This can be achieved by having a consortium of sponsors for a custom video.  Either the producer or a fan writes a short script proposal within a specific category and posts it to measure interest and consider suggestions.  When there is enough interest put a price to the video and sell pre-orders with the understanding that our cards will not be charged unless they receive enough orders to cover the cost of filming.  When the video is done you have something truly special to offer the rest of the community, and the sponsors have taken all of the risk.  You will also receive the promotion of satisfied customers on sites such as this.  I am convinced that there are enough like minded people out there within the many specific segments of this fetish to make this happen.  Sites that feature hundreds of fan submitted stories are a testament to this as common themes run through so many of them.  Don't just ask us hypothetically what we would like to see.  Instead put the fate of the product right in our hands.  The total initial payment for the custom would be more than what a producer would receive from an individual, the potential for future would be sales higher, and you would have happy customers that would return time and time again.

[steved0109]

If you have someone paying $50 or $100 for a custom, they are not going to agree with another person on the same custom because people paying for a custom all want to choose the models and they will never agree on the models. Forget about customs. Did Crystal, ECNWC, DWW, Foxy Combat and the others do customs? If so, what do they charge? I'm guessing if they did, it was more than $50.

To produce a good fight, I am guessing about $800 to $1,000 will need to be spent. To produce a fake piece of crap, I would guess that number gets sliced in half.

Most businesses will charge two times what it costs to make something. If I need $5 to produce the widget, I will charge $15 for the widget. So let's say that 100 widgets is what we expect to sell.

Distribution will take 40% of your sales, so keep that in mind.

So I need to make in sales $2,400 on a $800 video. At worst, I need to make $1,600 because not all videos will sell 100 copies or I may have a shoot be a dud. Sometimes girls quit, get hurt or just don't fight so you have a loss on those fights because you cannot release it.

So x=sales, y=price, z=distribution cost.

(x*y)*(1-z)=1600

(100*25)*(1-.40) = 1500

So $25 keeps your head above water for a 15 minute fight.

To charge $5 for a 15-minute real fight, you would need to sell 500 copies of the fight, and that is just not happening.

[cssdude]

Queen of Mean, I really respect your comments above.  My thought is that it is a marketing problem more than a pricing one.  I don't think producers understand how to effectively and profitably market their goods to a larger audience outside of forums like this.  I love this site, don't get me wrong.  I just mean that the marketing has to cast a wider net.

[Queen Of Mean]

Queen of Mean, I really respect your comments above.  My thought is that it is a marketing problem more than a pricing one.  I don't think producers understand how to effectively and profitably market their goods to a larger audience outside of forums like this.  I love this site, don't get me wrong.  I just mean that the marketing has to cast a wider net.

You've hit the ultimate issue, the simple fact that the promotion of female fighting and the retail of video's containing such a theme is not socially acceptable.

That is what is holding back the volume growth of the business, but that means a whole shift in how ordinary people view this fetish, within this site we take is as a normal part of life, outside of here most people would be repelled by it.