FreeCatFights
General Category => Catfight Web Sites & Sources => Topic started by: shesfinished on September 18, 2023, 06:37:00 AM
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Looks like we got another Suitefights catfight production. No release date announced. If I am not mistaken, this will be their first inter-racial match. Pics of the ladies on Twitter/Instagram. Hairpulling allowed and no "braided hair!" Like it already.
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Looks like we got another Suitefights catfight production. No release date announced. If I am not mistaken, this will be their first inter-racial match. Pics of the ladies on Twitter/Instagram. Hairpulling allowed and no "braided hair!" Like it already.
First interracial for a while. I cant forget Jacky fay vs misty lovelace which was a classic. I look forward in buying it
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Misty vs Kyla (Regan)
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Any photos?
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Steve might want to ask Ziva to remove her reply in which she basically gives away the result.
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Please post pics for non Twitter users.
Thanks
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Voilà:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6NeWsWXsAAD80v?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
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And one more, love this one for Ziva staring at her opponent with determination:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6MTHnPWAAEV7Q_?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
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you're a lifesaver tr0tz ;D
THANKS!
Zivas a name on the rise. She's been real active lately on the session/fantasy wrestling circuit. To my knowledge this is her first "real" catfight. She's also a pretty animated character for lack of a better term (lol) I'm interested to see where this goes.
PS
Am I the only one missing just the regular thong attire? :-[ I much rather prefer the performers attire from the oil matches than the hold up stocking/garter deal. Just my personal opinion.
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Also super curious on this one. Even more knowing a bit about Ziva and absolutely nothing on Rina.
Judging by Ziva's comments on Twitter, it was an intense fight:
"Holy shit! I’m having the best day ever! Just did my first competitive cat fight for
@SuiteFights It was so intense, I really gave it my ALL! I was sweating and breathing heavy. "
"I want an award for wedgie of the year"
"I got a little clump of hair ripped out! It was intense!"
"I didn’t wear any boxing gloves, and this was a no striking, match rule, but we do have some titty slaps, strikes & squeezes"
Really sounds like a hell of a fight!
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Can’t wait to final,y see this one. I pickRina to win this
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So now we have Zivafey catfighting at Suitefights, loving it and sounding like she wants more!
We also have Emma Ray wanting to catfight again at Suitefights too!
They are literally the perfect opponents for each other! Same height, body, and firecracker attitudes. The mind boggles just thinking about this matchup! It would be an absolute blockbuster of a catfight if it were to happen imo.
Anyone else feel the same, or is it just me. ;D
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If Ziva wins or loses, I'd love to see her go against Jackie Hoff. Big vs medium breasts between two petite hotties about the same size. Emma would also be a good opponent for Ziva, Both got attitude!
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So now we have Zivafey catfighting at Suitefights, loving it and sounding like she wants more!
We also have Emma Ray wanting to catfight again at Suitefights too!
They are literally the perfect opponents for each other! Same height, body, and firecracker attitudes. The mind boggles just thinking about this matchup! It would be an absolute blockbuster of a catfight if it were to happen imo.
Anyone else feel the same, or is it just me. ;D
As I recall, they had MASSIVE beef long ago....to point of each really wanting to fuck up the other legit, Ziva has been a street fighter in her past mind. Idk if that's the case now, but if it is and it was arranged.........explosive might not even be the word for that battle. Steve would have his hads full keeping control of that one to say the least.
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So now we have Zivafey catfighting at Suitefights, loving it and sounding like she wants more!
We also have Emma Ray wanting to catfight again at Suitefights too!
They are literally the perfect opponents for each other! Same height, body, and firecracker attitudes. The mind boggles just thinking about this matchup! It would be an absolute blockbuster of a catfight if it were to happen imo.
Anyone else feel the same, or is it just me. ;D
We should let them know at their socials that we are all down to see who would prevail if they dare to face each other
As I recall, they had MASSIVE beef long ago....to point of each really wanting to fuck up the other legit, Ziva has been a street fighter in her past mind. Idk if that's the case now, but if it is and it was arranged.........explosive might not even be the word for that battle. Steve would have his hads full keeping control of that one to say the least.
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Again I'm really excited to here about this fight as im a big fan of Ziva. Steve if you're out there reading this since you're now into the the oil "wrasslin" business (judging by how you've updated your title on Gumroad) PLEASE have Ziva for one of your oil shoots! Although not talked about as much as it should have around here >:( you've put out 2 of if not the best oil wrestling videos I've ever seen (the 3-way is my personal favorite SF VIDEO!) and this is coming from a WAM Wrestling collector. The WAM wrestling community really appreciated those matches ;D
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Any news yet on the release of this video?
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No update from Suitefights....yet.
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I'm convinced at this point the fight never happened and the pics were AI generated. We're being played people, WAKE UP! LMAO!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I'm convinced at this point the fight never happened and the pics were AI generated. We're being played people, WAKE UP! LMAO!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Try being a slap city fan, he dropped pics on the 4th of July ???????? also said he would release the fight in the next week (from the time) like twice.
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Off subject here but what was wrong with Bella gypsy in the newest catfight with the rookie she seemed like she was the rookie the way she was fighting Bella is a damn good catfighter lol
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Off subject here but what was wrong with Bella gypsy in the newest catfight with the rookie she seemed like she was the rookie the way she was fighting Bella is a damn good catfighter lol
Bella Gypsy's performance was sooo disappointing, She lacked aggressiveness, no attack strategy and seem disintersted. I had picked her to beat Nadia as she in the past have proved she is one tough catfighter. A total mystery as she submitted so easily. Her pussy grabs on Nadia were her only highlight in this match. I's love to see her come back though.
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Yeah I mean I think Bella is great! But like you said, she seemed a little reluctant to be as agressive so I hope there is a rematch for Bella . I rethink both were sweeties and if Bella was more agressive I wonder what the outcome would be :)
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Off subject here but what was wrong with Bella gypsy in the newest catfight with the rookie she seemed like she was the rookie the way she was fighting Bella is a damn good catfighter lol
Bella wasnt aggressive enough. Maybe she was just wanting a quick payday.
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Off subject here but what was wrong with Bella gypsy in the newest catfight with the rookie she seemed like she was the rookie the way she was fighting Bella is a damn good catfighter lol
Bella wasnt aggressive enough. Maybe she was just wanting a quick payday.
I saw a nice long preview of the Bella/Nadia fight and thought the same thing. That was the deal breaker for me and is why I didn't purchase it even though the price was fair. Also... still no word on the Ziva vs Rina fight. I'm definitely now going with the theory that the pictures were created by AI and the fight didn't happen ;D
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Off subject here but what was wrong with Bella gypsy in the newest catfight with the rookie she seemed like she was the rookie the way she was fighting Bella is a damn good catfighter lol
Bella wasnt aggressive enough. Maybe she was just wanting a quick payday.
I saw a nice long preview of the Bella/Nadia fight and thought the same thing. That was the deal breaker for me and is why I didn't purchase it even though the price was fair. Also... still no word on the Ziva vs Rina fight. I'm definitely now going with the theory that the pictures were created by AI and the fight didn't happen ;D
Ziva Fey was quite enthusiastic regarding this catfight on Twitter. Very excited for her catfight debut, don't think Suitefights is into foolery as he ism a serious and honest producer.
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I really don't see Steve doing something like this, not even for April Fools Day.
If there is or was a cf, he will let us know shortly. He is a serious guy who takes pride in his work.
His production values speak to that. His fair pricing speaks to that.
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I really don't see Steve doing something like this, not even for April Fools Day.
If there is or was a cf, he will let us know shortly. He is a serious guy who takes pride in his work.
His production values speak to that. His fair pricing speaks to that.
I totally agree with you about that. After all at one point you know he was a customer of getting fights like us buying them so he knows and understands how to price fairly and put out the best fights. And he is wanting to be sure the ladies are taken care of physically and and financially
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I seriously doubt SF would actually advertise a fight as a joke.
BUT....
To be fair SF hasn't personally commented on this fight on this site sooooo..... maybe? Hell, for all you guys know I myself could be AI! ::) ;)
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While we all hope for the earliest release or any update, let's wait and see!
I'm sure he's also got a personal life and shit to handle aside from being a catfight producer ;D
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While we all hope for the earliest release or any update, let's wait and see!
I'm sure he's also got a personal life and shit to handle aside from being a catfight producer ;D
true and…fair enough :)
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Me still waiting on the latest SF match...
"Aaaaaany day now" ;D
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You think this is bad? Look at slap city? Swear they announced a fight around 4 months ago and even released pics. They then said the fight would be out within a week, that was about 3 months ago.
Still nothing, but he goes on to twitter every day to like pictures of models tits ????????????????
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You think this is bad? Look at slap city? Swear they announced a fight around 4 months ago and even released pics. They then said the fight would be out within a week, that was about 3 months ago.
Still nothing, but he goes on to twitter every day to like pictures of models tits ????????????????
I'm just really having fun before the SF match drops at this point because usually it doesn't take this long for them to release an already filmed fight (it's coming close to a month now ??? ). When i first heard about it i was REALLY excited but since the news dropped I've made a few big money purchases and there's a few more fights I'm really looking forward to that should be dropping within the next few days I'm more interested in. TBH my anticipation for this Ziva match has kinda faded so its not at the top of my list at this point because of the reasons I just stated. Now if the trailer is insanely good?... then it'll be back at the top of the list!
I hope everything is OK with the slapcity guy. To not release an already shot fight in that amount of time sounds like something is definitely wrong. I hope I'm mistaken though and nothing bad has happened.
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I don’t know when I’ll be able to get this out, and even then, I’m not sure I’m going to release it standalone. Maybe as a bonus to something else. It’s not very good. I’ve developed a bad habit of allowing the ladies to chat beforehand to make them more comfortable and I believe this has affected the quality of recent catfights. It’s my responsibility to make sure everyone is focused on what they’re there to do and take it seriously and I need to seriously recalibrate how I do catfights going forward.
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I don’t know when I’ll be able to get this out, and even then, I’m not sure I’m going to release it standalone. Maybe as a bonus to something else. It’s not very good. I’ve developed a bad habit of allowing the ladies to chat beforehand to make them more comfortable and I believe this has affected the quality of recent catfights. It’s my responsibility to make sure everyone is focused on what they’re there to do and take it seriously and I need to seriously recalibrate how I do catfights going forward.
I would never tell you how to run your business, because you are the best around. But I wonder if more $$$$$ for the winner would alleviate this problem. I'm sure that the reason the women do these fights is for the money.
Rich
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I don’t know when I’ll be able to get this out, and even then, I’m not sure I’m going to release it standalone. Maybe as a bonus to something else. It’s not very good. I’ve developed a bad habit of allowing the ladies to chat beforehand to make them more comfortable and I believe this has affected the quality of recent catfights. It’s my responsibility to make sure everyone is focused on what they’re there to do and take it seriously and I need to seriously recalibrate how I do catfights going forward.
I know I speak for many when I say I appreciate your honesty and your dedication to releasing a quality product. It shows in each production you release, even when unforeseen circumstances factor in. Please keep doing what you're doing. I agree, the tension when the girls haven't talked in person beforehand ratchets things up significantly, in a good way.
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I don’t know when I’ll be able to get this out, and even then, I’m not sure I’m going to release it standalone. Maybe as a bonus to something else. It’s not very good. I’ve developed a bad habit of allowing the ladies to chat beforehand to make them more comfortable and I believe this has affected the quality of recent catfights. It’s my responsibility to make sure everyone is focused on what they’re there to do and take it seriously and I need to seriously recalibrate how I do catfights going forward.
I figured it was a quality issue. Like I stated before I never knew you guys to sit on a already filmed fight this long. I don't think the women nowadays are too interested in catfing anymore to be honest. There's better ways for these glamor models to quench their thirst for physical combat that's way less strenuous on their bodies and ends in far less physical damage. Again these women make money off of their looks and if the options are getting all scratched up and loosing hair in a catfight
verses some bumps and bruises in a competitive wrestling match or mud, or oil match then they're going to go with the bumps and bruises because they are easier to conceal. BTW I still stand by my statement that your past oil tournaments have been the best content you've produced in years! That 3 girl tournament you did is hands down my personal favorite SF video ever and YES that includes the Mira vs Jess 2 catfight. I still give that fight 5 stars and it holds the crown for my favorite catfight ever so that's saying a lot.
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I don’t know when I’ll be able to get this out, and even then, I’m not sure I’m going to release it standalone. Maybe as a bonus to something else. It’s not very good. I’ve developed a bad habit of allowing the ladies to chat beforehand to make them more comfortable and I believe this has affected the quality of recent catfights. It’s my responsibility to make sure everyone is focused on what they’re there to do and take it seriously and I need to seriously recalibrate how I do catfights going forward.
Much respect for this brave and revealing note. I appreciate the restraint of not scolding the ladies on-camera if you think their efforts are not up to expectations. I hate that and always thought if efforts are a problem, the action should be stopped, and an off-camera discussion be held to clarify expectations.
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Having the ladies comfortable with each other prior to the catfight certainly would damper their efforts to go all-out vs each other. Some level of animosity or a winners bonus would, I believe, would raise the intensity and a higher level of competitiveness for which the ladies would be willing to go for the win and prove who's better. A little trash talk would not hurt to get the ladies juices flowing. Always appreciate what SF's produces and I am a diehard fan. If Rina vs
Ziva Fey does not meet what is expected, then it should not be released at any price. Hoping another match is produced soon.
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Having the ladies comfortable with each other prior to the catfight certainly would damper their efforts to go all-out vs each other. Some level of animosity or a winners bonus would, I believe, would raise the intensity and a higher level of competitiveness for which the ladies would be willing to go for the win and prove who's better. A little trash talk would not hurt to get the ladies juices flowing. Always appreciate what SF's produces and I am a diehard fan. If Rina vs
Ziva Fey does not meet what is expected, then it should not be released at any price. Hoping another match is produced soon.
My apologies if I'm misinterpreting your comment but even if the fight is lame I still think it deserves to see the light of day at some point. Sometimes SF can be hard on themselves so TBH there's a chance the fight may not even be THAT bad lol. On the other hand again I've never known them to consider not releasing a fight no matter how bad it was so that in itself does raise some concern. Idk at least maybe release it as a free gift for years of dedication to us fans, or perhaps like they alluded to earlier have it as a bonus match with another release. I feel kinda bad for all involved for some reason. I honestly don't think the fight could have been as bad as they think it is
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The way I definitely wouldn’t not release it, that would be a waste, and some people have different tastes, some prefer bruiser fights like your Lexi vs Sarah, some prefer fights that look more raw with more timid girls such as your carmen vs sammy.
There’s a reason that Steve has the best reputation In this industry and that’s due to his honesty and fairness.
If he wants to release this as a bonus fight with his next fight then you can’t ask for much fairer.
Also if he were to simply release the fight with transparency then you also can’t ask for much fairer, if he wants to do so with a reduced price, then certain people who like the fight will feel like they’ve got a great deal.
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Suittefights mentioned on Twitter that those who liked Carmilla's tweet would get a copy of Ziva vs Rina. That was in Oct. Anybody hear anything further??
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Suittefights mentioned on Twitter that those who liked Carmilla's tweet would get a copy of Ziva vs Rina. That was in Oct. Anybody hear anything further??
Nope! >:( >:( >:( >:(
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Suittefights mentioned on Twitter that those who liked Carmilla's tweet would get a copy of Ziva vs Rina. That was in Oct. Anybody hear anything further??
Lol I imagine he will hope everyone forgot about that, I’m pretty sure he also said he would send it for free with his next fight, hopefully the one that is scheduled for tomorrow
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Suittefights mentioned on Twitter that those who liked Carmilla's tweet would get a copy of Ziva vs Rina. That was in Oct. Anybody hear anything further??
Lol I imagine he will hope everyone forgot about that, I’m pretty sure he also said he would send it for free with his next fight, hopefully the one that is scheduled for tomorrow
Do you have any info who the ladies are for his next catfight??
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Suittefights mentioned on Twitter that those who liked Carmilla's tweet would get a copy of Ziva vs Rina. That was in Oct. Anybody hear anything further??
Lol I imagine he will hope everyone forgot about that, I’m pretty sure he also said he would send it for free with his next fight, hopefully the one that is scheduled for tomorrow
Do you have any info who the ladies are for his next catfight??
If I was a betting man based off twitter activity, fyona Ryder would be one. She said she was looking, then suitefights were tagged, then shortly after said they were looking for a woman and fyona retweeted it.
I may be wrong here but I’d say it’s 90% one is her.
The other, no idea.
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Suittefights mentioned on Twitter that those who liked Carmilla's tweet would get a copy of Ziva vs Rina. That was in Oct. Anybody hear anything further??
Lol I imagine he will hope everyone forgot about that, I’m pretty sure he also said he would send it for free with his next fight, hopefully the one that is scheduled for tomorrow
Do you have any info who the ladies are for his next catfight??
If I was a betting man based off twitter activity, fyona Ryder would be one. She said she was looking, then suitefights were tagged, then shortly after said they were looking for a woman and fyona retweeted it.
I may be wrong here but I’d say it’s 90% one is her.
The other, no idea.
Hope it is Fyona!!
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Suittefights mentioned on Twitter that those who liked Carmilla's tweet would get a copy of Ziva vs Rina. That was in Oct. Anybody hear anything further??
Nope! >:( >:( >:( >:(
Same here. Don't understand what the big deal is/was about releasing this fight especially if there are people willing to buy it.
Suittefights mentioned on Twitter that those who liked Carmilla's tweet would get a copy of Ziva vs Rina. That was in Oct. Anybody hear anything further??
Lol I imagine he will hope everyone forgot about that, I’m pretty sure he also said he would send it for free with his next fight, hopefully the one that is scheduled for tomorrow
Do you have any info who the ladies are for his next catfight??
If I was a betting man based off twitter activity, fyona Ryder would be one. She said she was looking, then suitefights were tagged, then shortly after said they were looking for a woman and fyona retweeted it.
I may be wrong here but I’d say it’s 90% one is her.
The other, no idea.
Hope it is Fyona!!
It's not. Fyona has agreed to fight @catfightphenom in Detroit. Fyona tweeted that that they are looking for more girls if they are interested in having more than one fight. This looks like a great match up as they seem to be the same size. I'm not sure where it is being filmed because her place looks quite small to film a full blown catfight, hopefully they do it in a hotel room like SuiteFights.
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Hey guy's Ziva vs Rina is FINALLY coming out!
Look for an announcement sometime Monday. See I knew I didn't sell my soul by (reluctantly) joining Twitter for nothing ;D
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I believe another catfight will be available between 2 models who fought in Florida.
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Released for free via Twitter!!
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Well I've finally seen this fight. I can see what Steve was talking about with this one. It's A LOT of stop start action in this. I guess you could say both girls had a very "methodical" approach to the fight meaning it was a lot of standing and pacing waiting for a good time to strike followed by some brief ground grappling just to reset and start the process over again. For what it was it wasn't bad but for the (sometimes absurd) levels of action SF hard-core fanbase thirst, this definitely doesn't reach that level. I've edited out/down the pacing around on my version and that made it better for me but my standards for SF catfights aren't like most on here (I'm an oil wrestling fan remember so I'm a shameful outcast ::) ) so with the patented "Jaybee Edit" and the fact it was free it was "ok".
PS
For those of you with a sweat fetish?... this fights for you!
PSS
I also saw the other fight ??? I really won't comment much on that one :-[ . At least I can say both women looked hot. I definitely want to see more from the winner. She's a real grappler so to kind of handicap her may I recommend for her next appearance....a little oil perhaps ;) 8)
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Steve was asbolutely right about this match. Ziva was an absolute disaster and hopefully we never see a fight with her again. It was as if she inhaled some nitrous oxide before this match just giggling all over the place.
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I liked Rina and would like to see her again against a suitable opponent and have her turn up her intensity level about 2 or 3 levels.
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The RINA vs ZIVA match was complete garbage. The real story here is the ANASTASIA vs JENNA match. Wow!
That topic is being covered in a separate board, so I'll post my comments there.
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Has anyone got any socials for Rina? Would love to know more about her.
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My thoughts on the match: imagine if a Lingerie Fighting Championship match was held indoors, and was topless / nude.
The match is enjoyable, as long as you lower your expectations of the type of action you'll be seeing.
There are good scenes, some lovely headscissoring, but there is also a lot of pacing, and being playful, and the amount of catty attacks is small, hardly any hairpulling or breast / crotch attacks, it's mostly a wrestling holds match.
I'd like to see Rina again, I feel she could get catty with the right opponent.
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My thoughts on the match: imagine if a Lingerie Fighting Championship match was held indoors, and was topless / nude.
The match is enjoyable, as long as you lower your expectations of the type of action you'll be seeing.
There are good scenes, some lovely headscissoring, but there is also a lot of pacing, and being playful, and the amount of catty attacks is small, hardly any hairpulling or breast / crotch attacks, it's mostly a wrestling holds match.
I'd like to see Rina again, I feel she could get catty with the right opponent.
This guy gets it 8)
I was more entertained (after I edited it) by ... whatever you'd categorize this "fight" as, sometimes unintentionally than I was with the other fight.
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Anastasia vs Jenna was decent, it was just quite clearly a severe mismatch. One girl was considerably bigger than the other, which sometimes works out if the smaller one is aggressive.
However this time the bigger woman also seemed to have much more advanced foght training. You could tell that Jenna was just really frustrated by the end of it.
Would love to see them both back against more suitable opponents.
They are both great finds from Steve though.
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Finally had time to watch these fights and credit to Suitefights for putting on a stellar production, but sometimes a catfight just works and sometimes it doesn't! You never know until you try it, and sometimes it just isn't the right mix. Both girls were incredibly attractive, but they both fought like nervous rookies and the fight just never was able to get out of first gear. Hah, Ziva repeatedly cheerfully asking Rina "how she was doing" was quite mood breaker! But it was also something you'd might expect when you have two nervous rookies as well. Maybe all this fight needed was one solid slap or just something for these two to actually get mad at each other, but that just never came in 40+ minutes. Credit to Suitefights for giving them the time, but also credit to him cutting it off because these two just weren't the right mix. However, I wouldn't mind seeing either of them back against different opponents as if you mix them with anyone else that "spark" might happen, and then who knows what happens.
As I have said ad nauseum on this board, if you have real amateurs catfight who have little to no experience, sometimes you strike gold and sometimes you don't. It makes those "special" fights all the more incredible when they happen, and you never know unless you experiment. The more you experiment, hopefully more your pool of catfighters grows and you can have more informed thoughts when creating future matchups.
The only question I might have about this fight is I wonder if Suitefights is still offering a cash bonus for the winner? If not, that might be all the motivation that is needed for nervous rookies to take the next step and want to throw down with more aggression.
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The only question I might have about this fight is I wonder if Suitefights is still offering a cash bonus for the winner? If not, that might be all the motivation that is needed for nervous rookies to take the next step and want to throw down with more aggression.
At this point it should be mandatory that the winner get a bonus since you can't do winner take all. But this fight seemed off from the get go. Ziva was doing judo stances like this was some training match and worse yet she wouldn't shut up, unless you are trash talking your opponent I don't wanna hear you talking nonsense. Also got the feeling like these girls were friends off camera and they might have agreed to go easy on each other and just go through the motions to get paid. They should be ashamed if they did such thing and I truly feel bad for the producer.
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I finally saw it.
Would rather watch a brief catfight like lexi vs sarah brooke than a long 40 minute stall fest like this was. The ninja stance, the giggling, the lack of aggression was a frustrating waste of time.
If they exchanged 4 slap blows at the beginning, it would have probably been more aggressive.
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This was the absolute worst SuiteFights match of all time. Ziva Fey was a disaster and should pay back or donate the money she got from this fight. Steve should put the hammer down from now on and only pay fighters that are serious about doing this. If you act like this is a big joke, then go home empty handed and never come back.
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This was the absolute worst SuiteFights match of all time. Ziva Fey was a disaster and should pay back or donate the money she got from this fight. Steve should put the hammer down from now on and only pay fighters that are serious about doing this. If you act like this is a big joke, then go home empty handed and never come back.
When u get two ladies friendly with each other, you ain't gonna have an intense catfight. Got have some degree of animosity or trash talk to elevate the desire to win and punish each other. This wasn't even close to being a "real" catfight I have seen many "scripted" ones that are more convincing.
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This was the absolute worst SuiteFights match of all time. Ziva Fey was a disaster and should pay back or donate the money she got from this fight. Steve should put the hammer down from now on and only pay fighters that are serious about doing this. If you act like this is a big joke, then go home empty handed and never come back.
When u get two ladies friendly with each other, you ain't gonna have an intense catfight. Got have some degree of animosity or trash talk to elevate the desire to win and punish each other. This wasn't even close to being a "real" catfight I have seen many "scripted" ones that are more convincing.
It takes 2 to tango. Ziva was terrible but the other girl lacked aggression too. If ziva was confronted by an aggressive jacky fay it could have ended up more agressive