[laurenwantstowrestleyou]

hi there everybody!  my name's lauren of laurenwantstowrestleyou fame   and i'd like to talk for a bit about something i've been enjoying for a while now... cyber wrestling...

various topics and things i've learned and picked up (with the matches that i've done so far) about how to make us all better at it

my first is what i will call selling...

now i read that pro wrestlers when they're in a match have to do something called selling... since most of the moves and holds aren't really being applied... they have to be "sold" to the audience with screaming and grimacing and flailing hands and all that good stuff

now for cyber... if ya on the receiving end... you should do similar stuff to sell the hold back to your opponent (or partner, if the case may be)

but... if you're the one applying the hold... you should also do your best to "sell" the effectiveness of the hold... this is where being descriptive comes in

for example... let's say you have me in a side headlock... and you think you have one hell of a punishing and devastating side headlock (and congrats to you if you do!) ... you need to sell that to me... however you wish to do it.. with bulging flexing muscles and powerful squeezes against certain points in my head or neck or whatever... trash talk helps here too by the way... but however you describe it... i need to feel that i'm undergoing the pressure and punishment that you want me to so i can post an appropriate response and i do that by what you have posted to me... or else i'm going to think that i can just get out of it... does this make sense to you all?

anyway... what i guess i'm trying to say is... i've always thought that cyber wrestling is really more of a dance than a competition... we each react to the other's moves... either by countering the move... or letting it sink in... but each move should be posted so that the intention of the move is clear enough to the other person in the match

any thoughts?

[laurenwantstowrestleyou]

hey... thanks for responding!  i'm kind of hoping that it gets people to think a bit

and one thing i wanted to clarify again about selling in a match.... if you want to pull off a move or a hold in a match... you should be able to convince the other person that your opponent that you can do it... if you want to get a submission from a hold... even if it is with something like a side headlock... you have to convince your opponent that you can... you do all this by "selling"

because it is your opponent... and maybe i should really say partner in most of these matches... who decides whether or not you succeed... based on the evidence that you give

hey i'm sounding all scientific now

[HB]

Well, its all in the imagination and writing skills of the participants.  That's everything. I've seen cyber fights that were nothing more than " I hit you hard, my fist in you belly" "Oh, I groan".  Needless to say I found something else to do fairly quickly.  But posts that not only describe the move involved, but sell the scene, the emotion, the conflict... those keep one's attention.  That's what I think of in the selling of it... making it a heated, realistic role play for all involved - the watchers as well as the fighters.  It doesn't have to be a precise technical description of a hold, but something well crafted that does make the situation feel real in the moment

[Seth]

well i can sign under what lauren says here...

[Gaelle]

I really agree with what was said.  It is important that your partner figures what are your abilities and indeed, you can give her some hints even before the match.  Posting things like "confident on my speed"..or.."watching her arms..she seems stronger than me"..things like that.  If both do the same before or during the match, it helps to figure what you can do and how you react if you are caught in a hiold..or if your opponent tries to get out of yours.

I always try to let a door open  when I wrestle.  A possibility for my opponent to counter my move.  That's because i like back and forth matches..of course, at some points, decision must be made and a winner must emerge.

I agree with Lauren.  In a cyber match, you are two to play.  By the way, I'm not sure it is a dance, but it is certainly a game   And if you want both enjoy it, stay realistic and post something reasonnably detailed.  I hate one line posters but I don't like either those who write a book to explain each of their moves.  Their posts come every 5 or ten  minutes and a full match lasts hours and hours.  A middle ground must be found.

About pro matches, everyone knows a real pro match is staged.  Some moves, applied for real could kill or at least permanently injure someone.  Pro Wrestlers are great athletes and stuntmakers but the matches are fake..and it is fine as long as we understand it.
I n cyber, it can be a little bit different sometimes..because it's cyber   Of course I won't stand up and giggle like if nothing happened if you catch me with a clothesline, but I could still be alble to counter one of your next moves.  My resistance in a cyber pro match is higher than in a classic apartment match.  By the way, a good way to keep suspense is to use the referee or the crowd..spending a move to argue with the referee allows your partner to recover and come back in the match...

[Dean The Destroyher]

well there is selling which each move should have some type of reaction a good blow of submission should show some damage pain soforth then theres over selling ala the first blow ko's your opponent in one which isnt fun but there should always be reaction and you need to make your  opponent feel your blows with your wording "i punch you in the  gut" isnt as effective as "my fist slams in your belly digging my knuckles deep in to the tissue" its some times just about the wording

[sugarandsparklez]

Lauren, great topic.

I have always seen it as something of a dance. At the start you dont know how it will go, but the match develops a flow. Various themes kick in, and you start to get an idea of how the match will go. I try and be realistic, taking in to account the condition I would be in, the power of the move and the direction the match is taking.

The fun is in waiting for your opponents post. Seeing what she will do, how she has reacted, and thats where you want an honest reaction.

[StarBear]

Wow. Great thread.  Gaelle has hit my heart (as well as you Lauren) right on the head. I couldn't agree more.

[RedEnforcer]

I completely agree here, especially with the idea that a cyberfight is a dance. I like to chat with opponents beforehand to get an idea of the style they like as well as pay attention to how they respond to certain moves. It's very much like sensing the small moves and shifts of your dance partner's body that let you know how to move.  I also agree with Gaelle that you have to leave opportunity, especially early in the match. If it's early, you should both be near full strength and ability so you need to give your partner a chance to escape and respond.

For the headlock example, lets say I just got it on you off of a collar and elbow tieup. I would describe it like this:

I twist my arms and shift, wrapping them around your head and pulling you down into a side headlock. I shift my stance, spreading my legs a bit to get balance as I press my arm against your head and jerk down, feeling my forearm digging into your temple and forehead as my bicep strains and presses against the back of your head as I work on securing the hold, arms still a little slick fomr your body oil.

Any comments on that kind of description?

[laurenwantstowrestleyou]

I completely agree here, especially with the idea that a cyberfight is a dance. I like to chat with opponents beforehand to get an idea of the style they like as well as pay attention to how they respond to certain moves. It's very much like sensing the small moves and shifts of your dance partner's body that let you know how to move.  I also agree with Gaelle that you have to leave opportunity, especially early in the match. If it's early, you should both be near full strength and ability so you need to give your partner a chance to escape and respond.

For the headlock example, lets say I just got it on you off of a collar and elbow tieup. I would describe it like this:

I twist my arms and shift, wrapping them around your head and pulling you down into a side headlock. I shift my stance, spreading my legs a bit to get balance as I press my arm against your head and jerk down, feeling my forearm digging into your temple and forehead as my bicep strains and presses against the back of your head as I work on securing the hold, arms still a little slick fomr your body oil.

Any comments on that kind of description?

wow... nice detail there in setting it up... but what would ya write to sell it if ya really wanted to make it... you know... punishing or devastating?

[Lamia]

If my opponant never sell..i just cyber fight whit him or her!

I train in martial art for years and most of my opponant never know how to really apply an hold, and most of time they d'ont know how to get out. I ALWAIS have to sell ..if i d'ont do that the fight is over after 2 or 3 turn 

The goal is not to win, but have FUN together. Create something. If my opponent try to do something really funny, sexy or i d'ont know. Something that will improve the quality of the fight...hell yes i will sell! But i ask him to do the same 

[RedEnforcer]

I completely agree here, especially with the idea that a cyberfight is a dance. I like to chat with opponents beforehand to get an idea of the style they like as well as pay attention to how they respond to certain moves. It's very much like sensing the small moves and shifts of your dance partner's body that let you know how to move.  I also agree with Gaelle that you have to leave opportunity, especially early in the match. If it's early, you should both be near full strength and ability so you need to give your partner a chance to escape and respond.

For the headlock example, lets say I just got it on you off of a collar and elbow tieup. I would describe it like this:

I twist my arms and shift, wrapping them around your head and pulling you down into a side headlock. I shift my stance, spreading my legs a bit to get balance as I press my arm against your head and jerk down, feeling my forearm digging into your temple and forehead as my bicep strains and presses against the back of your head as I work on securing the hold, arms still a little slick fomr your body oil.

Any comments on that kind of description?

wow... nice detail there in setting it up... but what would ya write to sell it if ya really wanted to make it... you know... punishing or devastating?

Thanks for the feedback. My response would depend on what my opponent typed back. At this point she could put her hands on my arms and take advantage of the slick hold and push her head free or she could let me know that she's trapped. Only then would I work on making it devastating. And I'd also see if there were subtle little hints in her response to tell me if there were weak spots I could exploit.

[Jimmy81]

I enjoy selling when on the receiving end.  It can turn a normal match into a memorable one, especially if my opponent's style isn't that descriptive.

When dishing out punishment, I try to be careful imposing when effect the hold or move has on her.  If it is late in the match and it is clear I am going to win, I will go into detail selling an offensive hold.  Early on when it is more back and forth, I consider that a no-no and can lead to conflict.

[RedEnforcer]

I enjoy selling when on the receiving end.  It can turn a normal match into a memorable one, especially if my opponent's style isn't that descriptive.

When dishing out punishment, I try to be careful imposing when effect the hold or move has on her.  If it is late in the match and it is clear I am going to win, I will go into detail selling an offensive hold.  Early on when it is more back and forth, I consider that a no-no and can lead to conflict.

That's how I go with it. Early on, I let my opponent basically tell me how much the hold hurts. If I'm at a point where I have control, I crank up the pressure.  For example, that one headlock I posted earlier was from the start of the match. If I were to post one later on after having my opponent dazed and a little more pliable so to speak it would look like this:

I set my arm hard against your head, both our bodies drenched in sweat from the heat of the lights and the exertion of the match. I make sure I press harder tho to secure my hold on you, pulling you in tight against my side and pinning your cheek and jaw against my ribs as I use my forearm and bicep to crank on the pressure against your forehead while I plot my next move.