These fights are fast paced and rough and most last between 3-5 minutes. We will be releasing one each month for download at a cost of $9.95. I have put a lot of thought into this, and the only reason why people make models try to fight for much, much longer than they normally would is to create a full tape of DVD and the end of the matches become stale and dull.
Measurements of the amount of thought invested in this effort may be subjective but have you ever bothered to watch any of GR's DWW content? The women were/are beautiful and the matches included topless and nude and went well over 30 minutes. He used several matches to make up a DVD. The matches never suffered from being stale or dull in the beginning, middle or end.Quote from: Capital City Catfights date=1316053632For $9.95, you are not making a huge investment in the fights, and if you like it, you can get two or three different matchups for a little more than what other producers will charge for one long fight.
Back to the asseretions of thought investment, I'm curious to know why someone would pay $9.95 to see non-topless matches with no breast or crotch grabbing when they can see hours of topless and nude matches online for free featuring both breast and crotch attacks. Did you have a chance to speak with Ted Barb from Fighting Sirens about this venture? It will be very interesting to see if there is a significant demand for what you have to offer. I wish you the best of luck.
SA
SA, thank you for the response. All I can say is if you do not like, don't buy it.
A standard text book response ala Litany of the Lame that goes without saying. ;-) However, I'll exercise my right to "question" and comment upon your description of your product and you can equally exercise yours to simply keep silent about it if you don't find what I've said to be to your liking.But if DWW, Foxy Combat, ECNWC all produce great matches, what is so wrong with another company doing that as well? If you eat a great steak at one place, are you pissed that 4-5 more steak houses open up in your area.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with another company offering a fantastic quality product but, one has to question how that "quality" is evaluated when the content of what's being consumed is described in a manner that fails to make the mouth water. It would be like someone describing a new show as having the same appeal of Baywatch...but taking place in the Himalayas during a blizzard. Your matches aren't as long (3-5 min). The product deliverable will be shorter (15-30min?) and it's non-topless and non-nude with no breast or crotch grabbing. Yeah...that's just a great Kobe beef steak...once you take away all the meat and leave just a bit of bone and some of the chewed up fat. Great analogy! ;-)And as a fan, I would much rather have three different fights for $30 than the same fight for 15 minutes. That is just me.
Wow! Really? Do you think that's why DWW was so successful at selling DVDs and content 1-1.5 hours long featuring different women in 3-5 matches per tape? You may be onto something with this 'new' technique...except they sold their product for $30 also so in essence, as fans we're supposed to be excited because you've stumbled upon the genius idea of providing the fans with 45min-1hr less content for the same price? Can't wait to hear how that works out for you Einstein...;-)What you will find in this fetish is that there are so many different things that people like. We are not trying to please everyone,...
While that theory and approach is quite clear, given "your" description of your product's main selling points it will be a miracle if you please ANYone.And I think I am the only company I know of (or at least one of a very few) that gives each fight it's own trailer on youtube.
The sudden decrescendo of the crisp staccato sounds you're hearing (which resemble several stiff farts breaking through the frozen crust of vapid wasteland we'll refer to as your Business Sense) is the applause and kudos (for hosting trailers on you tube) being cut short and silenced by the sudden realization that if your trailers contained any of the content most fans are interested in seeing, it would never be allowed on You Tube... ;-)
SA
Virginia is gorgeous: a perfect look for this sort of thing. That said, I don't see how you can even begin to get a fully developed erotic experience in 3-5 minutes. I even see DWW's 15 minutes or so as being on the short end. The all time greats by the likes of Academy, Flamingo and Premier were closer to an hour. Take the classic ACA 70, in which Roni systematically and methodically took apart poor Bobbie. Stopping that at the 3 minute mark would have been an unpardonable crime.
The comment made about a "ton of hair pulled out" in the trailer is inaccurate, and should be corrected by the producer. It is clearly hair extensions which most producers warn their women not to wear when fighting. Easily pulled out and not the real hair of the woman.
I would rather have the models going full tilt the second the match starts then going 5-10 minutes of action before they start fighting for real.
To say that other company's fights aren't that intense cause they are much longer than your 3-5 minute matches is dead wrong. A lot of catfights I've purchased are hard fought from the start, not just yours! Also, several producers discuss their matches with their customers in Yahoo groups etc. To say you are the only one with this back and forth chat is dead wrong.
OK, I have been convined to continue my dialogue there in my yahoo group, where you can be removed and I can filter comments which all the other producers do, and not here.
I will use this board for advertising like the other producers do.
Thank you
Hmm...you might try counting the number of people who contradicted your claims of "product superiority" and see if you have more than twice that many orders for your product at the end of the month. As I'd stated previously, you're fooling yourself regarding the 'benefits' your product offers. FvsF fans familiar with other producers know your claims are, at best, Ms. Guided.
You remind me of a young (at that time) wrestler who we'll refer to as 'Hurricane Havana' who had a similar disdain and distaste for customer commentary regarding her content quality and plans behind hosting a convention. She ignored advice from other producers who had hosted several successful conventions previously. She ignored input from fans and people who had worked with other producers. At the end when her convention date arose, the attendance could be summed up via a single comparison:The difference between Hurricane Katrina vs. Hurricane Havana: Bad as it was, at least people showed up for Hurricane Katrina
SA
If this producer covers his ass, why should he care how many negative comments from people who havn't seen his work get posted in this forum? Especially if they're all from the same two people!
Oh, there are more than 2 who find this stuff objectionable. Just not worth the time needed to properly criticize it.
Sketch: grabbed the CCC guy's crotch and didn't stop squeezing until he had driven him to the
Yahoo group desert.
$9.99: a lot to pay for what is essentially a YouTube video with decent lighting.
Bruce (rip), GR, Hana: genius producers who understand what makes female combat erotic. Light years beyond CCC
Catzreview videos: a stain on our shared interest and the entire UK. Anti-erotic Badger-meat.
Roadie: has seen this movie before
CCC guy: Mr._E withot the profanity-laced PM's.
JohnMoog: real fights are like quick sears. The best erotic content are more like braises: slow cooked until the meat falls off the bone.
That. Is it really that hard to agree to disagree? So you don't like a certain content, THEN DON'T BUY IT! But don't put down those that do just cause they see it different. Everyone has different tastes, always have, always will.
Crapitol City made a number of assertions and claims regarding advantages inherent in the 'packaging' of his FvsF content that were simply asinine and ridiculous. :"...Can't hang with the Big Dogs, Stay on the porch" Todd Anthony Shaw aka Too $hort - a modern American poet
SA
If this producer covers his ass, why should he care how many negative comments from people who havn't seen his work get posted in this forum? Especially if they're all from the same two people!
$9.99: a lot to pay for what is essentially a YouTube video with decent lighting.
JohnMoog, what you wrote about the length of time needed for a fully developed erotic experience is very true, but it's up to me how long I take to watch a particular video from start to finish. Using freeze frame and the slider on my media player I can make a short fight last a long time! I can treat it it like a series of photo slides if I want, knowing I can hit "play" and turn it back into a video any time I want. If you havn't tried that trick, it's a great way to get maximum pleasure from a short fight.
JohnMoog, what you wrote about the length of time needed for a fully developed erotic experience is very true, but it's up to me how long I take to watch a particular video from start to finish. Using freeze frame and the slider on my media player I can make a short fight last a long time! I can treat it it like a series of photo slides if I want, knowing I can hit "play" and turn it back into a video any time I want. If you havn't tried that trick, it's a great way to get maximum pleasure from a short fight.
I do that all the time. It's just that the scenes I replay over and again, the ones I pause and just marvel at, are never in the first 3 minutes. In another thread IIRC, you talked about a woman becoming more attractive by virtue of fighting. For me, that transformation continues, indeed if all is right accelerates, over the course of a match. Bobbi at the bitter end of ACA 70 is a different Bobbi than at the beginning, if not kinder maybe gentler, certainly humbler and vastly sexier. What happens bears no relation to losing one quick fall. And then there's what becomes of Bobbi at the end of ACA 93. Jade couldn't have pulled that off until they'd gotten really, really familiar.
If they don't, you could look into maybe a best of 3 falls type thing? You'd still have the intensity of a shorter fight, but you'd have the length that others look for as well. Just an idea.
Interesting, how does he stay in the business I wonder given that? Homemade Catfights BTW is pretty intense too, maybe a bit closer to the Crystal style. So ECNWC isn't the only rough fight company out there left, and might not even be the roughest given that.
How long have you been filming for him? Curious as well, if you're not into that style of fight why you do it.
Interesting, how does he stay in the business I wonder given that? Homemade Catfights BTW is pretty intense too, maybe a bit closer to the Crystal style. So ECNWC isn't the only rough fight company out there left, and might not even be the roughest given that.
How long have you been filming for him? Curious as well, if you're not into that style of fight why you do it.
He loses money. I would almost look at ECNWC as a charity to the catfighting world. I will say that if no one bought Bob's DVDs, he could not be in business. I am going to estimate that for every $1.00 he spends he gets $.75 back in sales. So he loses four figures every year on this.
Quote"...Can't hang with the Big Dogs, Stay on the porch" Todd Anthony Shaw aka Too $hort - a modern American poet
SA
So once again you are saying people who like shorter fights are more or less stupid?
This is why people walk away from boards you are on and threads you post on, it just resorts to name calling and I am smart you are stupid mentally. It gets very tired, very quickly.
I film for ECNWC and the longer matches, to me, just are not as entertaining. To Bob, they are. I'm not calling him wrong for his opinion or tastes. That is how civil people speak to each other,
Riiiight...Step 1: Try to put words in people's mouths accusing them of saying things they've never said. Step 2: Run away to Yahoo where you and the 7 people interested in your product content can start a cyber-circle jerk commentary that blows smoke up your ass 24/7 about how great you are and what a great product you have. Step 3: Blame everyone except the man in the mirror when your project flops.
SA
JohnMoog, what you wrote about the length of time needed for a fully developed erotic experience is very true, but it's up to me how long I take to watch a particular video from start to finish. Using freeze frame and the slider on my media player I can make a short fight last a long time! I can treat it it like a series of photo slides if I want, knowing I can hit "play" and turn it back into a video any time I want. If you havn't tried that trick, it's a great way to get maximum pleasure from a short fight.
I do that all the time. It's just that the scenes I replay over and again, the ones I pause and just marvel at, are never in the first 3 minutes. In another thread IIRC, you talked about a woman becoming more attractive by virtue of fighting. For me, that transformation continues, indeed if all is right accelerates, over the course of a match. Bobbi at the bitter end of ACA 70 is a different Bobbi than at the beginning, if not kinder maybe gentler, certainly humbler and vastly sexier. What happens bears no relation to losing one quick fall. And then there's what becomes of Bobbi at the end of ACA 93. Jade couldn't have pulled that off until they'd gotten really, really familiar.
No disrespect, but Bob is his own worst enemy in some ways. If he provided downloads as well as dvds, and posted short clips
As much as I would love to see his product downloaded, I think he's much smarter not offering ECNWC in download format. I've seen complete matches for free posted all over the net from nearly every producer that offers their product for download. Am I going to pay for that product once I've seen it for free on the net? Probably not, but I'm damn sure planning to spend $ buying ECNWC product content after seeing Camille and Simone(?) mentioned a few weeks ago. The sound track was missing in the clip I saw on the net so I wouldn't have any problem buying that action as long as it was packaged with a couple of other matches (which it is). I will start to spend my $ with ENCWC in the hopes that they will continue providing quality FvsF content that I love to watch. The clip I saw was batting 1K in nearly every aspect and area that I feel makes fantastic FvsF product content.
SA
No disrespect, but Bob is his own worst enemy in some ways. If he provided downloads as well as dvds, and posted short clips
As much as I would love to see his product downloaded, I think he's much smarter not offering ECNWC in download format. I've seen complete matches for free posted all over the net from nearly every producer that offers their product for download. Am I going to pay for that product once I've seen it for free on the net? Probably not, but I'm damn sure planning to spend $ buying ECNWC product content after seeing Camille and Simone(?) mentioned a few weeks ago. The sound track was missing in the clip I saw on the net so I wouldn't have any problem buying that action as long as it was packaged with a couple of other matches (which it is). I will start to spend my $ with ENCWC in the hopes that they will continue providing quality FvsF content that I love to watch. The clip I saw was batting 1K in nearly every aspect and area that I feel makes fantastic FvsF product content.
SA
Quote"...Can't hang with the Big Dogs, Stay on the porch" Todd Anthony Shaw aka Too $hort - a modern American poet
SA
So once again you are saying people who like shorter fights are more or less stupid?
This is why people walk away from boards you are on and threads you post on, it just resorts to name calling and I am smart you are stupid mentally. It gets very tired, very quickly.
I film for ECNWC and the longer matches, to me, just are not as entertaining. To Bob, they are. I'm not calling him wrong for his opinion or tastes. That is how civil people speak to each other,
Riiiight...Step 1: Try to put words in people's mouths accusing them of saying things they've never said. Step 2: Run away to Yahoo where you and the 7 people interested in your product content can start a cyber-circle jerk commentary that blows smoke up your ass 24/7 about how great you are and what a great product you have. Step 3: Blame everyone except the man in the mirror when your project flops.
SA
The project is not flopping.
You seem like a smart guy with a pretty deep history in the catfight fetish. You sure this all you want to talk about?
I think that in a short fight, where both women know that the first submission is going to mean victory for one and defeat for the other, that transformation, like everything else in the fight, happens more quickly.
True, in a short match you are never going to get such an extreme situation of complete victory for one and utter, abject defeat for the other as we saw in, eg, the Artemis vs Lia Lebowe fight we were discussing once, where Lia, in effect, kept beating Artemis over and over again till the losers heart and will to win just broke completely.
What makes a catfight or wrestling video great for one person will not make it great for another.
You will hear producers chime in that what they have is the best or the most real or the sexiest. Well that is probably true in their own individual prespective. And there is nothing wrong with that. If there are 1,000 catfight fans and 300 really like what I am doing, then I am happy. If another 300 like Double Trouble, then I really don't think they are going to crossover too much into what I am doing.
It is interesting that you talk about the lack of talent in the USA, that might be true, and it might not be. CCC has been filming for about 10 months now in one portion of the country and we have found 13 different women willing to do unscripted matches to one degree or another and filmed them. So there might be talent. But then again, our girls get pulled away by other companies the second their face is out on the street. That confuses me. I would think it would be just as easy to find talent in one city as it is another.
I really do not think there is a lack of talent, but a lack of producers. If I were to open shop in Dallas or Houston or Las Vegas, I would think I would be just as sucessful. One of the keys is finding a way to pay the women what they are worth. If you think two women are going to give you a good match for $50 or $100, you are probably not going to succeed.
We at CCC have figured out our break even point for sales. I know the figure it costs to produce a fight, and if we do not reach it, we will shut down the shop. We do not want this to become a charity. We also have the advantge of being able to do all of our filming and editing in house. We can film something and have it edited on clips4sale in under 24 hours.
Why do the foriegn women do not seem like porn stars? Well maybe over there they are porn stars? :)
But there are also a lack of producers for a reason. No one is getting rich off of this. Hopefully it can at least support the hobby, but with times as down as they are, I don't think these are banner years for the industry.
Something that kills my interest is a producer who greatly exaggerates the fights. You go out and buy the damn thing, and it turns out to be average at best. So be careful when you throw out "amazing" for such quickie fights.
No disrespect, but Bob is his own worst enemy in some ways. If he provided downloads as well as dvds, and posted short clips
As much as I would love to see his product downloaded, I think he's much smarter not offering ECNWC in download format. I've seen complete matches for free posted all over the net from nearly every producer that offers their product for download. Am I going to pay for that product once I've seen it for free on the net? Probably not, but I'm damn sure planning to spend $ buying ECNWC product content after seeing Camille and Simone(?) mentioned a few weeks ago. The sound track was missing in the clip I saw on the net so I wouldn't have any problem buying that action as long as it was packaged with a couple of other matches (which it is). I will start to spend my $ with ENCWC in the hopes that they will continue providing quality FvsF content that I love to watch. The clip I saw was batting 1K in nearly every aspect and area that I feel makes fantastic FvsF product content.
SA
I don't know Bob, and have only seen a couple ECNWC videos because of privacy issues with the mail, but he most likely IS doing the correct thing. There's almost no way to protect intellectual property on the internet unless you've got boatloads of cash and lawyers that only the biggest producers have-and even at that they can't stop it.
I once asked a producer who was dogged in his fight to keep his product from being stolen what would keep someone in another country from buying his downloads selling them on a foreign language website as their own. He said basically "nothing"-unless he was alerted to it, and even that is a headache dealing with foreign web servers, not to mention legal fees.
Another problem is the privacy issue amongst the performers. Anyone else notice a lot of the women doing topless and nude videos (at least here in the US) are adult "actresses/models", and that the "talent pool" is quite shallow?
If you go to YouTube and put in "Bobbi vs Charli" you'll see a clip of Academy Videos #137(?). That video was shot around 1997-1998, years before YouTube even existed, and the girls were paid about $500 each. The clip has been viewed on YouTube over 1.1 MILLION times....maybe a reason the strippers are sticking to stripping?
I think that in a short fight, where both women know that the first submission is going to mean victory for one and defeat for the other, that transformation, like everything else in the fight, happens more quickly.
True, in a short match you are never going to get such an extreme situation of complete victory for one and utter, abject defeat for the other as we saw in, eg, the Artemis vs Lia Lebowe fight we were discussing once, where Lia, in effect, kept beating Artemis over and over again till the losers heart and will to win just broke completely.
At its best, a brief match can strongly engage the imagination in that direction. Here’s a nice clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjWTVGk8Z9k
There are many reasons why I shouldn’t like this, which I won’t list (Ofecteau is free to chime in, of course), yet I find it very powerful. Of the little time there, as much as half is quality time that cute, game Tori spends helpless, being ominously choked from behind in full camera view. The sexy expression of moderate discomfort on Tori’s face is due solely to Cat’s voluntary restraint in this sort of light commercial promo. Then when Tori tries to make a dignified show at the end, shaking her head at the outcome, I like to think she really knows that if this had been more serious, as suggested by the cage and all, things could have gone far worse for her. Come to think of it, when CCC talks about women who “beat the shit out of each other,” when you use a “real, unscripted catfight” for reference, those things are definitely there in the background for me.
I think that in a short fight, where both women know that the first submission is going to mean victory for one and defeat for the other, that transformation, like everything else in the fight, happens more quickly.
True, in a short match you are never going to get such an extreme situation of complete victory for one and utter, abject defeat for the other as we saw in, eg, the Artemis vs Lia Lebowe fight we were discussing once, where Lia, in effect, kept beating Artemis over and over again till the losers heart and will to win just broke completely.
At its best, a brief match can strongly engage the imagination in that direction. Here’s a nice clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjWTVGk8Z9k
There are many reasons why I shouldn’t like this, which I won’t list (Ofecteau is free to chime in, of course), yet I find it very powerful. Of the little time there, as much as half is quality time that cute, game Tori spends helpless, being ominously choked from behind in full camera view. The sexy expression of moderate discomfort on Tori’s face is due solely to Cat’s voluntary restraint in this sort of light commercial promo. Then when Tori tries to make a dignified show at the end, shaking her head at the outcome, I like to think she really knows that if this had been more serious, as suggested by the cage and all, things could have gone far worse for her. Come to think of it, when CCC talks about women who “beat the shit out of each other,” when you use a “real, unscripted catfight” for reference, those things are definitely there in the background for me.
Nice little scrap. Looks like maybe the oil wrestling is a bit of light entertainment on an MMA card?
If you liked that, you might enjoy the CCC fight too!
One of the things that gives Marla vs Charlie a bit of extra atmosphere and authenticity is the fact that it's fought in a real ring, in what looks like a bona fide boxing gym. Seeing two pretty girls going at it submission catfight style in a setting like that really works for me.
What makes a catfight or wrestling video great for one person will not make it great for another.
You will hear producers chime in that what they have is the best or the most real or the sexiest. Well that is probably true in their own individual prespective. And there is nothing wrong with that. If there are 1,000 catfight fans and 300 really like what I am doing, then I am happy. If another 300 like Double Trouble, then I really don't think they are going to crossover too much into what I am doing.
It is interesting that you talk about the lack of talent in the USA, that might be true, and it might not be. CCC has been filming for about 10 months now in one portion of the country and we have found 13 different women willing to do unscripted matches to one degree or another and filmed them. So there might be talent. But then again, our girls get pulled away by other companies the second their face is out on the street. That confuses me. I would think it would be just as easy to find talent in one city as it is another.
I really do not think there is a lack of talent, but a lack of producers. If I were to open shop in Dallas or Houston or Las Vegas, I would think I would be just as sucessful. One of the keys is finding a way to pay the women what they are worth. If you think two women are going to give you a good match for $50 or $100, you are probably not going to succeed.
We at CCC have figured out our break even point for sales. I know the figure it costs to produce a fight, and if we do not reach it, we will shut down the shop. We do not want this to become a charity. We also have the advantge of being able to do all of our filming and editing in house. We can film something and have it edited on clips4sale in under 24 hours.
Why do the foriegn women do not seem like porn stars? Well maybe over there they are porn stars? :)
But there are also a lack of producers for a reason. No one is getting rich off of this. Hopefully it can at least support the hobby, but with times as down as they are, I don't think these are banner years for the industry.
I was specifically talking about topless and nude. You have 13 decent looking women willing to do topless or nude catfight videos of one sort or another??
I don't know-are the women of DWW European porn actresses? I assumed them to be dancers, for the most part.
I'm guessing the answer to both questions are negative.
Your girls get pulled away the second their faces hit the street? How would anyone know how to contact your girls directly? You'd be a fool to make this info known. How many catfighter producers are there walking the streets in your area, looking for talent to steal from a company in existence barely a year, that practically no one has heard of?
Not to sound like the haters, sounds like some major bullshitting....
I know that four of the women who worked with me first have already been contacted by other companies, and three have filmed with other companies. I am the only catfight producer I know of based in the Washington DC, Baltimore area. It tells me that I am doing something right when I see models who have worked for me travel hundreds of miles to do a shoot, because making them travel that far is not cheap. I have noticed that once their faces seem to hit the street, they are contacted.
I know that four of the women who worked with me first have already been contacted by other companies, and three have filmed with other companies. I am the only catfight producer I know of based in the Washington DC, Baltimore area. It tells me that I am doing something right when I see models who have worked for me travel hundreds of miles to do a shoot, because making them travel that far is not cheap. I have noticed that once their faces seem to hit the street, they are contacted.
I noticed that two women you filmed then went on and fought each other for another company, so I'm sure that what you say is correct. Just wondering though, are you saying that this creates a problem for you? Is there any reason they can't come back and work for you again? I'd have thought that women moving from company to company like that would benefit producers - the women gain experience and the more money they make in your line of work, the more likely they are to stick with it.
Like I said, just wondering.
I know that four of the women who worked with me first have already been contacted by other companies, and three have filmed with other companies. I am the only catfight producer I know of based in the Washington DC, Baltimore area. It tells me that I am doing something right when I see models who have worked for me travel hundreds of miles to do a shoot, because making them travel that far is not cheap. I have noticed that once their faces seem to hit the street, they are contacted.
I noticed that two women you filmed then went on and fought each other for another company, so I'm sure that what you say is correct. Just wondering though, are you saying that this creates a problem for you?
Just out of curiosity, which two girls, and what other company did they work for?