FreeCatFights
General Category => General Discussion about Catfights => Topic started by: jaybee on January 21, 2022, 06:47:37 AM
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There's a video clip in the live action section titled "One From The archives..." (that I highly suggest everyone on FCF check out) that got me thinking... What happened to mainstream catfights? All throughout TV/MOVIE history from the black and white age up until around the late 90s female fights in movies/tv shows were highlights. From The Dalton's Women, and Destry Rides Again, all the way up to the classic Catfights of late night 80s tv shows like Dynasty and Dallas to the heyday of mid 90s Jerry Springer clothes ripping brawls the Catfights we're usually featured in the advertisement of the show/movie as part of the draw to watch. Then one day... POOF, gone! What happened? Why have female fights been relegated to just martial arts, lucha libre flip, kick and punch fest?
I'm really interested to hear you guy's and gals thoughts
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I think it's a reflection of a trend in society to make females appear more masculine while causing and/or adding to gender confusion etc. It's part of a much wider political strategy and I personally find it quite demoralising. That may be the point though.
Just my opinion of course and I'm sure there will be plenty who disagree. Fair enough.
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iPhones and YouTube happened. You can see anything you want now, on demand.
Nobody watches live TV anymore, anyways. They stream.
Having said that--the trend will Poof! in the other direction just as suddenly. Catfights will come back. My prediction is the catalyst will come from some burnt-out B-star in need of cash, Britney Spears or Kim Kardashian, deciding to hold a Suitefights-like catfight to PayPerView raise money.
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There's a video clip in the live action section titled "One From The archives..." (that I highly suggest everyone on FCF check out) that got me thinking... What happened to mainstream catfights? All throughout TV/MOVIE history from the black and white age up until around the late 90s female fights in movies/tv shows were highlights. From The Dalton's Women, and Destry Rides Again, all the way up to the classic Catfights of late night 80s tv shows like Dynasty and Dallas to the heyday of mid 90s Jerry Springer clothes ripping brawls the Catfights we're usually featured in the advertisement of the show/movie as part of the draw to watch. Then one day... POOF, gone! What happened? Why have female fights been relegated to just martial arts, lucha libre flip, kick and punch fest?
I'm really interested to hear you guy's and gals thoughts
I've expressed my thoughts on this in the past and think that you and DKB pretty much nailed it.
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I think it's a reflection of a trend in society to make females appear more masculine while causing and/or adding to gender confusion etc. It's part of a much wider political strategy and I personally find it quite demoralising. That may be the point though.
Just my opinion of course and I'm sure there will be plenty who disagree. Fair enough.
I agree. The cinema catfights of yesteryear have well and truly been kicked into the long grass or so it seems and for whatever the reasons I too find demoralising. What I find astonishing is it's now seen as acceptable for women to pummel each other in a boxing ring or MMA cage (which I don't have a problem with by the way), yet a catfight in a movie remade similar to the ones in FRWL or Destry is not ???
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I understand why today's movies don't have old fashioned catfights, it's all part of the "make women equal to men" movement. OK. You can read lots of books (pro and con) on that subject. What frustrates me is that you can't even view old movies on late night TV anymore. I mean the time slot between Midnight and 3:00 am was when you could catch an old flick like "The Woman They Almost Lynched," or "Swamp Women", etc., etc. Now we have hundreds of channels and no hope.
Fortunately, Youtube has taken up a lot of the slack.
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you have never seen the bad girls club?
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Unfortunately the "catfight" trope is practically dead not just because there's a new trend to make both genders seem capable, but catfights are seen by most feminists as demeaning for having no purpose beyond the "male gaze". It is what it is. It seems the only women who don't mind are traditional women, and women who are already into fighting or sex work.
There have been a few good catfights in recent media, but the trope is unfortunately a dying breed.
The Hunt has a good ending brawl, and so does the end brawl of Antebellum (Terrible movie though).
But yeah, not a lot of traditional catfights in recent memory
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I think it is a combination of 3 things:
1) Catfights are no longer sexy enough to get our attention. In the 80's and 90's, catfights were just about the sexiest thing you could possibly see on TV or in a movie. Now porn is so pervasive it is practically everywhere. And not just Playboy kind of Porn. Everything under the sun is just a google search away.
2) Women are running much of Hollywood. Either directly or indirectly they have the power to kill a movie if it doesn't reflect the themes they insist on. Either they think all women are like them who would never fight over anything or they feel women need to be elevated to positions of power in every film just like they should be in Hollywood. I think they are a bit confused though. They keep trying to make movies and shows that were intended for Guys appealing to women and they think by adding powerful female characters who can fight as well or better than the men that women will like the movies. For example, the near death experience of the Star Wars Franchise under Kathleen Kennedy. Or the Chick Power scene in Avengers Endgame. It is about as dumb as adding gunfights to Romantic Comedies thinking that will bring in a bigger male audience.
3) Men have been trained to be uncomfortable by anything that might turn us on. Even something mildly tittlating as a catfight during our movie or TV show makes us nervous that we are going to be accussed of being sexists pigs... again. And women are in the strange position of being in charge of making sure we aren't turned on by anything... which means if there is a Program that has a catfight and they hear about it... they are obligated by society to make sure it never finds our TV set. Society demands it or they are not women.
As far as the future, I think this niche will slowly be relegated to history. Something they laugh about when they watch soap operas from the 90's. I don't see it springing back anytime soon anyway.
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I think it's a side effect of the removal of sexual/erotic content from mainstream movies in general. There are women who are doing excellent action movie work, but it's all down in the 'direct to video' cheap stuff and it's not meant to be erotic (and it's great that that stuff is there, I watch it). But the movies that make all the money and get all the attention have had all the life drained out of them; it's hard to imagine something like the Tia-JL Curtis fight from True Lies showing up in any big studio movie at this point (to pick a random example from the Good Old Days).
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I understand why today's movies don't have old fashioned catfights, it's all part of the "make women equal to men" movement. OK. You can read lots of books (pro and con) on that subject. What frustrates me is that you can't even view old movies on late night TV anymore. I mean the time slot between Midnight and 3:00 am was when you could catch an old flick like "The Woman They Almost Lynched," or "Swamp Women", etc., etc. Now we have hundreds of channels and no hope.
Fortunately, Youtube has taken up a lot of the slack.
Sorry for going off topic, but this is interesting.
Are there any more old catfights movies? I do not know much.
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In the 70's thru early 90's before the internet, people would watch soft porn and B-movies to get off. I myself would rent videos at BlockBuster hoping for a good Catfight. Now with the internet there is no market for soft porn and B-movies as can now just go online to find real Catfight video at any time. Sadly the days of Prison and Cavegirl Catfights are over in hollywood, but not because of no interest, it's because of the internet. No one is going to pay and rent a movie that might have a Catfight when can now go online and find a real catfight for free. Catfight the movie came out in 2016 with a classic Asian Vs Blonde storyline so not 100% dead in Hollywood.
Young fans of today will watch reality TV like the Bad Girls Club to see Catfights on TV.
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I won't comment because I will only sound redundant. I think the comments on this thread are all good ones. The problem is a multitude of things. I particularly liked lumberjack66 and Bear's comments, but many good observations were made by others. I do miss those days, but then again, I miss and long for a lot of old school things from "back in the day". Probably just a sign that I just am getting older. ( older NOT old ok ? lets just get that straight LOL )
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https://youtu.be/xwH8GFS2im0 Here's a clip that may be of interest in relation to this.
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https://youtu.be/xwH8GFS2im0 Here's a clip that may be of interest in relation to this.
Wow! You deserve some kind of award for a find like that :D! That was an awesome and insightful watch
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Great find!! Thumbs all the way up!
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there is the movie Chick Fight from 2020
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there is the movie Chick Fight from 2020
The movie was "ok" but it's just another example of regular women who all just happen to know MMA. That movie was the perfect opportunity to have a bunch of women just catfighting. It was about an underground women's fight club set up to let out pent up anger/aggression or settle disputes, no training necessary. If that movie would have been made in the '70s or '80s it would have been the greatest movie ever made LOL! By the way for those interested it's not a movie like Fight Club or anything it's a comedy.
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A bit of a less known recent (2010) movie named Bitch Slap. Inspired by the old school movies such as Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill!, there is an extended girl fight scene.
https://youtu.be/wxUKxEyThR0 (https://youtu.be/wxUKxEyThR0) Complete movie but in french
the fight starts at 1:14:04 then a brief interlude and continues at 1:25:55
Bitch Slap Fight Scene Part 1 Helen Vs Camero
https://youtu.be/4Sdw97jNFTM (https://youtu.be/4Sdw97jNFTM)
Second-half fight scene
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzlBNlpBQk4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzlBNlpBQk4)
Proof that the big names may not produce good girl fights now but the indie scene still has potential. It's still mostly action movie fighting but there is a couple of dirty moves.
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A bit of a less known recent (2010) movie named Bitch Slap. Inspired by the old school movies such as Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill!, there is an extended girl fight scene.
https://youtu.be/wxUKxEyThR0 (https://youtu.be/wxUKxEyThR0) Complete movie but in french
the fight starts at 1:14:04 then a brief interlude and continues at 1:25:55
Bitch Slap Fight Scene Part 1 Helen Vs Camero
https://youtu.be/4Sdw97jNFTM (https://youtu.be/4Sdw97jNFTM)
Second-half fight scene
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzlBNlpBQk4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzlBNlpBQk4)
Proof that the big names may not produce good girl fights now but the indie scene still has potential. It's still mostly action movie fighting but there is a couple of dirty moves.
I saw this movie when it came out on VOD years ago and as for the fight scenes I will admit they got it right! Now for the movie as a whole?.... :-X
There has been some good ones to pop up here and there over the years, mostly from Z grade no budget movies. I just saw a nice little
shower catfight in a women in prison movie called "Amazon Hot Box" on Tubi yesterday. Again a Z-List movie that I stumbled onto by accident.
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I just wanted to comment on the original subject of this thread. I'm an old guy now who grew up watching movies with classic catfights like "Swamp Women" and the western catfights like "Dalton's Women" and I collected classic catfight art from Stanton and Glenn. Yes, part of me misses this older style, especially in the artwork, because I grew up on it. However, times evolve and change and that is the natural progression of life. I don't think there is a "conspiracy theory" or "wider political strategy" to make women appear more masculine or more like men. Women have just changed and evolved naturally over the past 40 to 60 years. They are more equal to men now and there's nothing wrong with that, it's a good thing. They still have a way to go with achieving equal pay and equal treatment from a business perspective. We shouldn't fear that or disparage that. Women don't fight like squealing, hairpulling little girls anymore. They are more fit now from exercising, they are better athletes in all sports, they participate in MMA fighting because they want to (I'm not a fan of cage fighting for anybody though) and they don't want to be treated as second class and have to take a backseat to men. It's not a good thing when men today sound like a bunch of old white guy sexists who still want women to be like they were in the 50's and '60s. Don't fight it because we're not going backwards. Classic catfighting may not exist in the movies today, but if you want to see some really good catfights, then check out a company like Fighting Dolls who put out excellent catfights almost daily. As to the movies, I think the best female fighting action we'll get to see now will be fights like the ones in "Kill Bill" or in "The Hunt".
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I just wanted to comment on the original subject of this thread. I'm an old guy now who grew up watching movies with classic catfights like "Swamp Women" and the western catfights like "Dalton's Women" and I collected classic catfight art from Stanton and Glenn. Yes, part of me misses this older style, especially in the artwork, because I grew up on it. However, times evolve and change and that is the natural progression of life. I don't think there is a "conspiracy theory" or "wider political strategy" to make women appear more masculine or more like men. Women have just changed and evolved naturally over the past 40 to 60 years. They are more equal to men now and there's nothing wrong with that, it's a good thing. They still have a way to go with achieving equal pay and equal treatment from a business perspective. We shouldn't fear that or disparage that. Women don't fight like squealing, hairpulling little girls anymore. They are more fit now from exercising, they are better athletes in all sports, they participate in MMA fighting because they want to (I'm not a fan of cage fighting for anybody though) and they don't want to be treated as second class and have to take a backseat to men. It's not a good thing when men today sound like a bunch of old white guy sexists who still want women to be like they were in the 50's and '60s. Don't fight it because we're not going backwards. Classic catfighting may not exist in the movies today, but if you want to see some really good catfights, then check out a company like Fighting Dolls who put out excellent catfights almost daily. As to the movies, I think the best female fighting action we'll get to see now will be fights like the ones in "Kill Bill" or in "The Hunt".
Thank you, Sir.
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I think it's a reflection of a trend in society to make females appear more masculine while causing and/or adding to gender confusion etc. It's part of a much wider political strategy and I personally find it quite demoralising. That may be the point though.
Just my opinion of course and I'm sure there will be plenty who disagree. Fair enough.
I totally agree with what you said. Women have been downgraded from feminine beauty to distorted masculinity. Female fights these days are ridiculous, choreographed like a poor man's MMA fight. It's beyond boring and part of the reason why I decided to animate catfights and emphasize the more feminine ferocity of the girls. Destry Rides Again, Carmen Jones, Las Piranas Aman en Cuaresma to me feature feminine and sexy catfights as they were meant to be.
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I just wanted to comment on the original subject of this thread. I'm an old guy now who grew up watching movies with classic catfights like "Swamp Women" and the western catfights like "Dalton's Women" and I collected classic catfight art from Stanton and Glenn. Yes, part of me misses this older style, especially in the artwork, because I grew up on it. However, times evolve and change and that is the natural progression of life. I don't think there is a "conspiracy theory" or "wider political strategy" to make women appear more masculine or more like men. Women have just changed and evolved naturally over the past 40 to 60 years. They are more equal to men now and there's nothing wrong with that, it's a good thing. They still have a way to go with achieving equal pay and equal treatment from a business perspective. We shouldn't fear that or disparage that. Women don't fight like squealing, hairpulling little girls anymore. They are more fit now from exercising, they are better athletes in all sports, they participate in MMA fighting because they want to (I'm not a fan of cage fighting for anybody though) and they don't want to be treated as second class and have to take a backseat to men. It's not a good thing when men today sound like a bunch of old white guy sexists who still want women to be like they were in the 50's and '60s. Don't fight it because we're not going backwards. Classic catfighting may not exist in the movies today, but if you want to see some really good catfights, then check out a company like Fighting Dolls who put out excellent catfights almost daily. As to the movies, I think the best female fighting action we'll get to see now will be fights like the ones in "Kill Bill" or in "The Hunt".
i totally agree that those of us who found the FRWL gypsy fight the sexiest thing ever should not just expect women to go back to the 50s and 60s but for me seeing women pull hair and fighting with their claws out is far more erotic than watching two women fight like men. yes it's a sexual thing but this is a fetish lol (puts his tin hat on and waits....)
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I just wanted to comment on the original subject of this thread. I'm an old guy now who grew up watching movies with classic catfights like "Swamp Women" and the western catfights like "Dalton's Women" and I collected classic catfight art from Stanton and Glenn. Yes, part of me misses this older style, especially in the artwork, because I grew up on it. However, times evolve and change and that is the natural progression of life. I don't think there is a "conspiracy theory" or "wider political strategy" to make women appear more masculine or more like men. Women have just changed and evolved naturally over the past 40 to 60 years. They are more equal to men now and there's nothing wrong with that, it's a good thing. They still have a way to go with achieving equal pay and equal treatment from a business perspective. We shouldn't fear that or disparage that. Women don't fight like squealing, hairpulling little girls anymore. They are more fit now from exercising, they are better athletes in all sports, they participate in MMA fighting because they want to (I'm not a fan of cage fighting for anybody though) and they don't want to be treated as second class and have to take a backseat to men. It's not a good thing when men today sound like a bunch of old white guy sexists who still want women to be like they were in the 50's and '60s. Don't fight it because we're not going backwards. Classic catfighting may not exist in the movies today, but if you want to see some really good catfights, then check out a company like Fighting Dolls who put out excellent catfights almost daily. As to the movies, I think the best female fighting action we'll get to see now will be fights like the ones in "Kill Bill" or in "The Hunt".
i totally agree that those of us who found the FRWL gypsy fight the sexiest thing ever should not just expect women to go back to the 50s and 60s but for me seeing women pull hair and fighting with their claws out is far more erotic than watching two women fight like men. yes it's a sexual thing but this is a fetish lol (puts his tin hat on and waits....)
I think the commenter you're replying to has got it all wrong. Nobody is going back to the 50s or 60s when they say they miss those types of fights the reality is those fights have more in common to actual female street fights than anything nowadays. It has nothing to do with women evolving. There's definitely a bit of exaggeration in film/Tv Catfights (it is supposed to be entertainment) but they're still somewhat grounded in reality. I don't know what street fights that commenter has seen but I've yet to see two regular women bust out MMA, luchador moves in a bar, night club, or on the street. I got the feeling they were trying to talk down at us for even saying that we like seeing those types of fights (regular Catfights) vs the current day karate fights. Basically nobody's saying women should ONLY just be rolling around pulling hair and tearing clothes but the reality is you'll see that in real life waaay before you see a female street fight that looks anything like you currently see on TV or film.
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I don't think there is a "conspiracy theory" or "wider political strategy" to make women appear more masculine or more like men. It's not a good thing when men today sound like a bunch of old white guy sexists who still want women to be like they were in the 50's and '60s.
I'm going to address both of these statements. First, there IS a wider political strategy to make women appear more like men. As a public school teacher I've seen this agenda pushed for 40 years. It started with co-ed PE. I have no problem with co-ed PE provided that kids chose it -- it should not be the only option. Back in the Bronze Age I was a decent athlete, and I loved the raucous PE classes in Middle School. They don't exist anymore. The feminist movement believes that equality can only be achieved if we have "sameness," i.e. unisex everything. Maybe they're right from a practical point of view, but I would argue that we lose a lot when we seek to diffuse sexual differences. Like I tried to explain to my feminist, musical granddaughter: We have 7 notes on the musical scale -- all are different, but all are equal. That's how we get music.
Lastly, my preference for "catfights" by and large, are pre-1980's. That's my preference; I still find them arousing, and that's what we talk about here. Does that make me a sexist? I don't think that quite fits the definition. I'm perfectly fine with equal pay for equal work, and women competing as athletes in whatever sport they chose. I just don't dig women beating the sh*t out of each other. As a matter of fact, watching men do the same thing is of no interest either. There are other things that I don't like either: Brussel sprouts, the college football play-offs, tattoos, idiots on the freeway, but they tend to be trendy nowadays. Does that make me old and out touch? Maybe so. But to quote Rhett Butler In Gone With the Wind, "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn."
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Found this on Youtube and just couldn't resist posting this link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed0CkZ8mSeU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed0CkZ8mSeU)
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This is a fantastic thread. I enjoyed reading all the comments, and I'll now throw in my 2 cents worth.
Having grown up in the 50's and 60's, I have seen a huge evolution in how female fights are portrayed in the movies, on tv, and also in real life. I'm not convinced there's any "political agenda" behind the change, rather it's a sign of how the times have changed, and how the roles of women and girls in society have changed with the times.
I vividly remember an afternoon in 1968 or 1969, riding in the backseat of my buddie's 50 Ford on the way home from high school. Also in the car was another friend and his girlfriend. She was complaining about how another girl had been talking about her....what is currently called "talking shit." My friend told her the next time the other girl opened her mouth, the girlfriend should hit her in the mouth. His girlfriend then replied, "but nice girls don't fight." Although girls did fight back then, it was rare, at least where I grew up.
Female fights in the old movies, particularly in western movies, were what I consider catfights. Women would pull hair, roll over each other on the floor, slap, and fight with their bodies and thighs intertwined. It was more feminine, if that makes sense. At a very early age, I found this extremely arousing, way before I ever heard the term "turned on." But in more recent times, movie and tv fights between women are more like martial arts fights. Punches and kicks have taken the place of hair pulling and rolling over each other on the floor. And it's not just in the movies or tv.
Watch the catfights posted today on yt and other social media sites. I don't mean commercially made fights, I mean real fights recorded by spectators. A lot of the fights feature the girls standing toe to toe, fighting like two guys. If they start to pull hair, both boys and girls scream at the girls to let go of the hair. If they go down and start fighting on the ground, a lot of times some in the crowd yell out to stand the girls up and have them start again. It's like the spectators would rather see the girls fight like guys than have the girls engage in a real catball type catfight.
Personally, while I will watch a fist fight between two girls or women, it doesn't have the same arousal affect on me that the old fashioned catfight does. If women had always fought like guys, I don't think I would have been interested. I certainly wouldn't have sought out sites like fcf and others.
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I think that the viewpoints presented in this thread are very insightful, particularly the explanations of why we are looking at the types of fights that are in movies today. I have no problem copping to the fact that I'm a dinosaur and much prefer the movie catfights of yesteryear. I found them arousing when I was younger, and still do (as much as I can be aroused these days). Those of you in my age bracket get my drift. I recently viewed all three of the catfights in the serial Nyoka and the Tigermen (1942) and still find them to be most appealing.
But let me pose this question to the younger members of this forum: Do you find today's movie catfights, or as I call them "slugfests" arousing? This is your paradigm, your reality, where do you stand?
There's a post in the Live Action Clips section by Led2 entitled "Every maln and his dog." If you haven't checked it out, I suggest that you do. I find that fight very sexy. It's a reminder of the old Roller Derby catfights (which I loved) where the two combatants lock into each others' hair and use their free hand to throw (pulled) punches. Very real and intense in its appearance, but basically innocuous and relatively harmless. How do you compare that fight to what you see in today's films? I'm sure that your responses will be as interesting and insightful as everything else in this thread.
Thanks for reading and thanks in advance for your responses.
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I believe the '80's were the heyday of feminine catfights. The prime time soaps made their living off of them.
Mud and oil wrestling, plus Foxy Boxing was in clubs all over the country. I was lucky enough to see a Foxy Boxing troupe of Penthouse Pets in the mid-'80's.
It was all fantasy, meant to titillate and I loved it. The women were overtly sexual and made it clear they were fighting for men's pleasure. Numerous video producers hired ridiculously gorgeous models to stage fights, some were more believable than others, but many of these models became accomplished fighters and they honestly enjoyed it.
It's funny looking back, because these women were much more empowered than today's confused females. They were athletic and feminine at the same time. There was a lot of tease, but a lot more please.
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But let me pose this question to the younger members of this forum: Do you find today's movie catfights, or as I call them "slugfests" arousing? This is your paradigm, your reality, where do you stand?
I don't think they are intended to be arousing anymore. They are expressions of female power to show women can do everything as well as a man. This is not to say that nobody nowhere is turned on by them. Just that is no longer their intention which is why it is no longer sexy. It isn't that I am bothered by this in movies at all. I am bothered when a 115 lbs woman kicks the but of 6 equally skilled and experienced 225 lbs soldiers in 30 seconds. But it is a definite shift that I don't think we are ever coming back from.
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But let me pose this question to the younger members of this forum: Do you find today's movie catfights, or as I call them "slugfests" arousing? This is your paradigm, your reality, where do you stand?
I don't think they are intended to be arousing anymore. They are expressions of female power to show women can do everything as well as a man. This is not to say that nobody nowhere is turned on by them. Just that is no longer their intention which is why it is no longer sexy. It isn't that I am bothered by this in movies at all. I am bothered when a 115 lbs woman kicks the but of 6 equally skilled and experienced 225 lbs soldiers in 30 seconds. But it is a definite shift that I don't think we are ever coming back from.
The fact that we can't have both is what sucks. We should be able to have female "slugfests" , and martial arts brawls as well as the sexy roll around Catfights, it's the all or nothing thing that pisses me off.
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Hey Bear, you should give Brussel Sprouts another shot. I strongly disliked them when I was younger but then years ago I had them in a soup in restaurant and they were surprisingly pretty good. You have to serve them up steamed with a little butter and some garlic salt. Try it. Our tastes, just like the times, evolve.