[GrasslandProductions]

If you bought a single copy, you can do whatever you want with that single copy with the one exception of making that single copy into two copies or more copies.

And uploading it to youtube or a file sharing site is creating another copy of the originally purchased video.

I have no problem with trading, but I do have a problem with duplicating.

[krizanti]

I've never felt the need of trading videos thanks to FFVRC (Fighting Females Video Rental Club) from PA. They've been renting wrestling/catfighting videos in the U.S since 1984. At present their stock of videos is nearly 7000 titles from over 360 production companies.

Over the years, a number of producers tried to stop FFVRC from renting their videos but they all failed. Renting videos in the U.S. is not illegal as long as they are the original copies. Below is the disclaimer I copied and pasted from FFVRC's home page.

Legal Disclaimer:

All production company names and or trademarks are the property of their respective owners. All rights reserved. F.F.Video is not affiliated with any production company or distributor. F.F. video is rentals only, it does not sell videos or DVD's. All the videos and DVD's in our catalog are covered by copyright from their respective owners. As such, copying and duplication in the same or varying formats is a violation of the U.S. copyright laws punishable by fines and or imprisonment. The videos and DVD's are also covered by a provision of the copyright law known as the "Doctrine of First Sale". This doctrine states, in part, that once a party has purchased a video or DVD they have the right to resale, lease or rent it. This is the law in the U.S.A. that allows videos stores to rent and sell videos without the permission in any form from the copyright holder. As all the video and DVD's in our catalog where purchased directly from the copyright holders or their agents we maintain this legal right.
    

[Tomico]

With regards to copies, it is the old piracy argument.

I see a lot of back and forth with regards to music/films/games bittorrent on http://torrentfreak.com/

Personally, i think it is morally wrong, but unquestionably unlawful.

On one side people talk about piracy boosting sales and helping to get indys going, screwing misleading fatcat producers or unnecessary middlemen, the right to properly own a product you buy and do with it what you want, outdated business models that need to innovate and create new monetisation systems (like for example free 2 play games, "pay what you feel it is worth" schemes and very affordable streaming/cloud services).

And the other side talk about how artists/creators should be paid for their work not have it stolen or copied, the issue of owning intellectual property, how industries are able to survive and keep their identity due to copyright law, macro economics and economies of scale (like how we collectively pay for a £100 million movie production) and how piracy effects them to make us all eventually pay anyway, and how some people are just spongers or parasites and just want a free lunch.

The issue of the 2nd hand market is a completely different beast however. Obviously its bad that the original creator does not get a taste in a second hand sale and it really sucks that whole companies are dedicated to this kind of industry (in my opinion at least). But should you be able to sell on products that you have paid for? Yeah mabye. Its a clear cut yes with a unique item like a piece of furniture or something but with a copy of something that was produced at much greater cost that you originally bought your copy for? I dont know.

But at the end of the day when I specifically think about FvsF material and less generally, I dont think you should trade or pirate it AT ALL. The industry is so small that I dont think it can take too much of a hit and you can really mess with some of the tiny struggling businesses.

But the upside of this fact is that you can make a huge statement with your purchase. Buy what you like and support it, or choose not to buy it and let that company die off.

[krizanti]

But at the end of the day when I specifically think about FvsF material and less generally, I dont think you should trade or pirate it AT ALL. The industry is so small that I dont think it can take too much of a hit and you can really mess with some of the tiny struggling businesses.

But the upside of this fact is that you can make a huge statement with your purchase. Buy what you like and support it, or choose not to buy it and let that company die off.

It goes without saying that piracy is both unethical and unlawful. Undoubtedly, piracy and trading have negative effects on the sales of producers as well.

I get the impression, some people are too paranoid that as a result of piracy and trading…their favorite producer will be forced out of business and they won't be able to get the FvsF material they enjoy. I don't think so! This may still be a small industry compared to others but I've been a fan since the late 70s and I can assure you that it has grown and expanded exponentially over the years despite piracy and trading. Back in the days when they were producing super 8mm films there was no piracy at all yet you could count the producers with the fingers of your hand. If a producer goes out of business today, I bet it will most likely be replaced by two or more producers tomorrow.

Technology has its cons and pros. Today, you can shoot a video, upload it to your clip store and someone at the other end of the world can purchase and download it within hours. Nevertheless, that buyer can share it with an infinite number of people with the same ease. None of these could even be dreamed of by the tiny group of producers who were struggling to shoot and develop super 8mm films. 

[krizanti]

Ofecteau:

Many moons ago I used to think what I would do if producers like California Supreme, Bellstone, Judell du Long, Women Warriors etc. went out of business. They all disappeared and it wasn't the end of this industry. GR stopping producing isn't the end of the world for me...Hana and Marek are producing similar videos. Academy stopping production isn't a big deal for me either, I'm into competitive wrestling and matches of most competitive wrestlers such as Ariel X who worked for Bruce are also available through other producers like LFFP, Monica etc. We don't know who else will break into this market and raise the bar even higher in the future. At one point in time, no one could make me believe anyone could make a better wrestling video than Judell du Long.

I also remember GR stating based on his observation that the average span of a fan was about 5 years. Of course, it does not mean that fans totally quit this interest but they get tired of the same style, the same girls etc.  GR's statement is 100% correct in my case...I do get tired of the same producer after a while...sometimes it does not even take so long as 5 years.

[DoYouKnowWhoIAm?]

I for one am glad people steal some stuff and put it online. Some companies are great at making videos look better than they really are.  So being able to see some of them stops me from walking into a foolish buy.  ALso i understand that this is a fetish, but it cant be super expensive to pay two women to fight.  You can pay anywhere from 20 to 40 bucks on a video.  You pay less for a big budget hollywood movie with professional actors and special effects.  Now im curious , does anyone know a rough estimate of what it cost to make a catfight?

http://www.freecatfights.com/forums/index.php/topic,25102.0.html

Anywhere from $300 to $1,000.

The actual amount mentioned in Steve's post was $2000 minimum to make a short, none topless catfight video. After it's done you would have to start thinking about putting it out there so people can buy it.

In the last year or so, DWW and Academy have stopped producing material. Mountain Mayhem and East Coast Cats have started. Can anyone possibly argue either the industry or we as consumers are better off by this state of affairs?

The Academy Wrestling we knew and loved died with Bruce, They are still releasing new matches, but, according to something I read here from somebody who usually knows what he is talking about, no more are being filmed.

I don't know anything about Mountain Mayhem, except that they produce scripted fights, which is all I need to know.

I do know that Eastcoastcats were an established company long before DWW folded. They are an excellent producer of genuine, unscripted catfights and I like their work, and the women they film.

They are also every bit as vulnerable to piracy as the companies you like, Ofecteau. Just thought I'd point that out.

 
   

[krizanti]

Ofecteau:

You're actually lucky that you were able to find what interests you through DWW and Academy. There are plenty of people that can not find what they are looking for in the inventory of any producer at all. The only option they have is the custom videos. I do know 5 of those fans in person...in fact, two of them shoot their own videos themselves rather than out-sourcing it to a producer. As you know, nowadays you can get a very decent HD camcorder under a $1,000 and a set of lights (Smith Victor) around $200. In Southern California the going rate is $250 per talent for a half an hour video...if nudity is involved it may go up to $300-350 (the choices of talents will substantially be limited though). If you want someone to make all the arrangements and shoot it for you...just add another $100 (providing that you give him/her the distribution rights, otherwise it costs more).

Just for the record; For 2011, the top 10 most-stolen vehicles in the nation were:

1-1994 Honda Accord
2-1998 Honda Civic
3-2006 Ford Pickup (Full Size)
4-1991 Toyota Camry
5-2000 Dodge Caravan
6-1994 Acura Integra
7-1999 Chevrolet Pickup (Full Size)
8-2004 Dodge Pickup (Full Size)
9-2002 Ford Explorer
10-1994 Nissan Sentra

[DoYouKnowWhoIAm?]

I do know that Eastcoastcats were an established company long before DWW folded.
They are also every bit as vulnerable to piracy as the companies you like, Ofecteau.

  
  

Vulnerable, yes, but not necessarily prone.

Car thieves steal very few used Pontiac Fieros. On the other hand, if you own a Lexus LS460 , you'd best have Smart Tracker on that sucker.

It is possible to praise and support the producers you like without denigrating the ones you don't in the process.