[wasteland1952]

Doing a search for "hairpulling" on this site brings up quite a few pages regarding hairpulling during fights.  But I want to solicit opinions on this subject from a different perspective.

After looking at dozens, if not hundreds of actual catfight clips on the net, in many instances the spectators, both boys and girls, chastise the fighters for pulling each other's hair.  You'll hear comments like it's "pussy" to pull hair, or the fights are frequently broken up if the girls resort to pulling hair.  You hear spectators encouraging the fighters to throw hands, punch, or knee their opponent, but rarely do you hear any spectators encourage pulling hair.

In my opinion, seeing two girls stand toe-to-toe and trade punches, with no hairpulling, or ground fighting, is not much different than seeing two guys fight.  I know it's the 21st century, and women are doing most everything that men do, and that's a good thing.  But girls are still girls, and I believe that when two girls fight, they should be allowed to fight like girls.  Maybe I'm just old school, but when girls pull each other's hair, that's one of the things I find fascinating about girl fights.

I'd like to hear from other members as to their thoughts on this.  And I encourage the girls who read these posts to weigh in on this subject.  Girls, if you've ever witnessed a fight, did you encourage or discourage hairpulling?  If you've ever fought another girl, did you pull hair?

Thanks for you input.

[herboyfriend]

A fistfight or wrestling is sexy to me anyway, and hair pulling is also sexy - with or without it works for me.

[Amy Gill]

Do wahtever you can to win! Hair is something I always go straight for!

[gmenn]

To me, it is not a catfight without hairpulling.  I feel it is an innate fighting maneuver and tactic women employ to gain control and inflict pain on their opponent. 

CFsupporter is definitely right: NO hairpulling, NO catfight. It is the most feminine way to fight and the sexiest by far.
Important for all producers: No braided hair in your posed or real catfights; no women with short hair. I don't look for
wrestling or boxing; catfighting is different and needs hairpulling all the time.

[wasteland1952]

CF supporter, when you said that pulling hair is an "innate" part of a girl fight, you really echoed a thought I've had for a long time.  And it's one of the main reasons I brought this topic up in the first place.

If you search the web for actual girl fight vids, in almost every fight, the first thing the girls usually go for is each other's hair.  And this is true regardless of which country the girls are from, or the ages of the fighters.  It's almost as if it's instinctive.  Even when the girls are being loudly discouraged from pulling hair, they usually resort to it sooner or later, even if it's only to get a good grip on their opponent to throw a punch.

And I also agree with gmenn, if there's no hairpulling, it's really not a catfight.

Something else that really bugs me about some of the crowds watching girls fight, is the tendency to break the fight up if the girls go to the ground.  It's not as often as I hear someone in the crowd whining about pulling hair, but it's often enough to be annoying.  Like hairpulling, seeing two girls fight on the ground, rolling around, legs entangled, is a very exciting part of the fight.  Why else would it be called a "catfight?"

Anyway, thanks for all the input.  I look forward to more opinions in the days ahead.

[Corbin2012]

if I want to see a catfight, hairpulling is strongly recommended in my opinion. love to see the fighters panting and grunting whilst pulling hair. also gives ones the opportunity to catch a glimpse of their painstriken faces. so, thats a catfight: hairpulling and slapping

[sue5159]

I couldn't resist putting my two cents in. Its been a couple of years since my last fight where I was defending myself. Growing up my brother taught me how to fight. He taught me how to make a fist with my thumb on the outside and the importance of not turning my head or back on someone. He taught me how to throw different punches and how to move to keep from getting hit. He also taught me some moves if I was attacked and grabbed from behind. He also told me if a guy attacked to gouge  his eyes, punch for the throat and stomp on their feet. He never taught me anything about pulling hair. Anyway, in situations where I was given no choice but to fight against a couple of younger inebriated gals, my intention was not to give onlookers a show. My attention was to make the other gal stop coming at me. In these situations I used my hands as weapons and punched, aiming for the face. One time this bitch did grab for my hair and actually got a hold and I made her let go when I gave her a closed backhand across her face. I put up my fists to let her know I was serious and she backed off. In one situation I came across a gal who seemed to know some boxing technique and this fight lasted longer. She didn't try to pull my hair or grab me. She gave up after I got in some good punches including a solid shot  to her nose and she walked away. I didn't start any of these fights, but my goal was to get out of the situation without getting hur and not to entertain people who wanted to watch a hairpulling contest.

[biff]

I think women / girls like to pull hair . If they do , they certainly should not be discouraged . Instead , they should be encouraged .

[Nutmeg]

sue5159 you are a trained fighter:  Fighting only to defend yourself.  Your type of fight is to be as violent as possible to end the fight as soon as possible.  There is nothing wrong with this but it is not a cat fight.

The OP was asking about real world fights, a point that people seem to have, once again, decided to ignore.

All the comments seem directed at staged or filmed fetish fights. The question was about the observations on actual fight clips seen online. And I can say in a real fight, your concern is not how to fight in a way that someone watching your fight to jerk off can best be pleased. You are trying not get hurt or killed.

And most people are NOT catfight fans, so it makes perfect sense that something that seems as cheap as hairpulling is discouraged in a real fight. The instances you see by experienced fighters are to gain a temporary advantage or to get the other persons steady for a punch. If you are pulling hair for the sake of pulling hair, it is viewed the same way as a hockey fight when the fighters grab each others jerseys: "fights done, please break us up." Same with rolling around on the ground. Real world isn't UFC so rolling on in the dirt usually means both are tired or someone is getting their ass beat on.

Saying women should fight "like women" in a real life fight is as insulting as saying only an Asian should use martial arts so they can "fight like their race " And from my experience, if you lamented to others watching a fight that you wished the women fought  in a way you found arousing, you might get  a reaction like asking to see a 10 year old in a bikini. When most people watch a fight they are watching a fight between two humans, not a gender based fetish fight. The thrill they get watching it might be the same as watching boxing match or UFC: it is the violence, the competition or the chance to see someone get the hell beat out of them. And they likely think 2 girls pulling hair is like watching paint dry.

My experience is similar to Sue. No one taught me to pull hair or slap or roll around in the dirt in a fight. In fact my brothers likely would have pounded ME if I did that while they watched.
 

[rozczochrany]

sue5159 you are a trained fighter:  Fighting only to defend yourself.  Your type of fight is to be as violent as possible to end the fight as soon as possible.  There is nothing wrong with this but it is not a cat fight.

The OP was asking about real world fights, a point that people seem to have, once again, decided to ignore.

All the comments seem directed at staged or filmed fetish fights. The question was about the observations on actual fight clips seen online. And I can say in a real fight, your concern is not how to fight in a way that someone watching your fight to jerk off can best be pleased. You are trying not get hurt or killed.

And most people are NOT catfight fans, so it makes perfect sense that something that seems as cheap as hairpulling is discouraged in a real fight. The instances you see by experienced fighters are to gain a temporary advantage or to get the other persons steady for a punch. If you are pulling hair for the sake of pulling hair, it is viewed the same way as a hockey fight when the fighters grab each others jerseys: "fights done, please break us up." Same with rolling around on the ground. Real world isn't UFC so rolling on in the dirt usually means both are tired or someone is getting their ass beat on.

Saying women should fight "like women" in a real life fight is as insulting as saying only an Asian should use martial arts so they can "fight like their race " And from my experience, if you lamented to others watching a fight that you wished the women fought  in a way you found arousing, you might get  a reaction like asking to see a 10 year old in a bikini. When most people watch a fight they are watching a fight between two humans, not a gender based fetish fight. The thrill they get watching it might be the same as watching boxing match or UFC: it is the violence, the competition or the chance to see someone get the hell beat out of them. And they likely think 2 girls pulling hair is like watching paint dry.

My experience is similar to Sue. No one taught me to pull hair or slap or roll around in the dirt in a fight. In fact my brothers likely would have pounded ME if I did that while they watched.
 

I agree. Everyone fights as he/she can and the only goal is to win. Women are fighting as they can, and for me, any such fight is interesting. I noticed that the "street fights" almost all women and girls use hairpulling. I like it but I realize that in this situation it does not matter.  

Hairpulling in the girl fight is so very common. I think that it should not be prohibit for women in combat.
What is MMA I would even be willing to introduce two types of rules in the fighting women. Normal MMA and MMA+hairpulling:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-j2PRJIMDA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSlKb-hJyH4
Be organized serious competition in this formula.
Just as there are wrestling freestyle and classic. What do you think. For instance: Is such a fight would be technically inferior or not. Interested arguments for and against. I'm happy to get to know opinion nutmeg78, sue5159 and other women.

[Nutmeg]

Roz,

Here is all the fouls in the UFC rules (which is likely the basis for most serious MMA rulesets) http://www.ufc.ca/discover/sport/rules-and-regulations#15

The question would be: what makes hairpulling the rule that should be thrown out of all those rules? Many of those are based on safety and on perception of MMA NOT being a pair of thugs doing a street brawl. And if the idea is to make women's fighting "more sexy", that is a bit insulting to the fighters. How would the male fighters feel if they were told they needed to do things to get the gay male fanbase? Do some more crotch grinding and face sitting boys.  Overall I don't see what hairpulling would add to the sport itself.

[wasteland1952]

Nutmeg, I see your point regarding the sport of women's MMA, and why hairpulling might tend to delegitimize (probably not a real word!) the seriousness of the sport.  I also understand your earlier point that most people are not "catfight fans," and that a person (man or woman) engaged in a fight is trying to win and/or defend oneself, not to put on a show.

However, I'd bet that a great majority of the folks looking at this site are catfight fans.  I can only speak for myself, but from the posts I've seen throughout this site, I believe that's true.

Personally, I wouldn't give two cents to see two guys duke it out, on the street, or MMA for that matter.  But seeing two women engaged in a fight, that's something different.  And quite frankly, it's arousing, at least to me.  I realize it's the 21st century, and it seems that women and girls, especially high school girls, fight much more often than they did way back when I was in school, but it's still unusual enough that it really tends to draw a crowd.  And search the internet for "girl fights, or catfights," and you'll see some news articles, and video footage on the TV news of girls fighting.  You don't see that kind of story when two guys get into it, just the girl fights.

I can still remember a girlfriend of a friend of mine talking to him about some girl who was hassling her.  My friend told her to smack her, or something to that affect.  His girlfriend replied, "nice girls don't get into fights."  Back then it was rare to see girls fight, at least in my school.  But now it is much more common.

Sorry I've gotten off the point of hairpulling somewhat, but for me, seeing two feminine girls get into a hairpulling, rolling catfight is very exciting, partly because it's still somewhat taboo and rare.  I don't mean it as an insult to women, it's just a fact.

As for hairpulling in MMA, the old DWW site used to feature quite a few MMA-style fights between very tough girls, and in a lot of those fights, hairpulling was allowed.  It didn't take anything away from the contest, or the seriousness of the fights.  Some of the old adds used to point to the fact the girls were wearing "cobra" fingerless gloves, specifically so the girls could pull each other's hair.

[sinclairfan]

If hair pulling was allowed in WMMA, most fighters would just shave their heads.

[DoYouKnowWhoIAm?]

Women don't need to be encouraged to pull hair in a fight. They just do it instinctively, even when they are trying not to because of hassle from spectators who want to see them punching the shit out of each other. If that wasn't so, it wouldn't be an issue and this discussion wouldn't be happening.

And why should it be discouraged? It's a great way for women to settle an argument physically without any serious damage to themselves or their opponent/rival. You never see fights between men being interrupted by people telling them to use different tactics in order to hurt each more. They either break it up altogether or leave them to sort it out for themselves. Why should women be treated differently??

The OP was asking about real world fights, a point that people seem to have, once again, decided to ignore.

Including you, by talking about hockey fights, women's boxing and MMA.

Same with rolling around on the ground. Real world isn't UFC

Exactly. So why bring it into this discussion?

Saying women should fight "like women" in a real life fight is as insulting as saying only an Asian should use martial arts so they can "fight like their race " And from my experience, if you lamented to others watching a fight that you wished the women fought  in a way you found arousing, you might get  a reaction like asking to see a 10 year old in a bikini.

The analogy you used there is false. People's ideas about how men and women should behave are based only partly on prejudice, and partly on real physical and psychological differences between the sexes. Racial stereotypes have no basis in reality whatsoever.

And are you saying that people who not aroused by women fighting regard people who are as being akin to paedophiles?
That's what it looks like to me.

[Nutmeg]

Wasteland my post was to provide some context to a common question is I see here : "Why do crowds in real life fights not encourage (insert catfight behavior here) ? " I hope it helped in that

I am not sure why my explanation as to why crowds in the real world may not encourage hairpulling should so offend thee, kafkod. Equally confusing is your preoccupation with the mention of the UFC, hockey or boxing, especially those were mentioned in explanation of how non catfight fans can view a fight between women or men. They just enjoy it for different reasons. If you actually read my post you would have grasped this.

And my comment about the UFC in regards to rolling about on the ground was to point out that in general, the UFC is the only place where ground fighting tends to happen. The rest of the time, its people rolling around looking as though they are dry humping each other or one person sitting on top pounding away on the helpless person below.  Hence why it tends to get broken up at that point based on my experience. Also going to the ground is dangerous. Try to fall safely on pavement. Now do it while someone tackled you or has your hair...

The analogy you used there is false. People's ideas about how men and women should behave are based only partly on prejudice, and partly on real physical and psychological differences between the sexes. Racial stereotypes have no basis in reality whatsoever.

A stereotype is usually based on an exaggeration of something, an attribution of a characteristic to race or gender that in fact is caused by other factors, or a "fact" that suits the needs of the speaker of such a stereotype. And you don't seem to believe stereotypes exist based on gender, which is incorrect. You claim that women instinctively hairpull and only don't because of those mean crowds telling them not to. I beg to differ since:

1. Women tend to have longer hair and be untrained fighters, thus being more exposed to the hairpulling risk
2. Men who meet this same criteria have also been known to pull hair (and be derided for it)  and
3. Men when fighting or attacking women also are known to pull their hair. Watch any depiction of domestic abuse and chances are he will lead her around by her hair.
4. You make a comment that "You never see fights between men being interrupted by people telling them to use different tactics in order to hurt each more. " Do cries of "Kick him in the balls!" ""break his arm!" "Curb stomp him" and "Give him the boots ! " not count as suggesting tactics used to hurt someone more? Granted they may not stop the fight if that doesn't happen but don't kid yourself in thinking men's fights are filled with nice audiences. That or you seem filled with a desire to demonize the audiences that don't encourage hairpulling.

And really if they are untrained slappers/ ineffective punchers, it is likely SAFER to let them just do a stand up fight. Just let them get it out of their system like men do (slap themselves silly as it were ) The chances of someone doing damage becomes luck based. . When you add the hairpulling, more chances of tripping/ tumbling to the ground which is not so safe. Even fighting on grass you could land on a rock, step in a gopher hole or any number of dangerous things. And yes I am assuming a non organized fight here. If you are doing a catfight in your friends basement at a set time, of course the rules set will dictate. (just to cover that angle should someone bring that up )

And are you saying that people who not aroused by women fighting regard people who are as being akin to paedophiles?
That's what it looks like to me.

You are correct. And before you fly off the handle I didn't say all people think that. I said you can be looked at the same way since I have seen and heard some strong negative reactions to it.  It is a fetish based on women and violence, so don't be shocked if people look at you like someone who would have their wife beaten up for their fix.

One only need look at the tales on this site of some extreme reactions by wives, girlfriends, family and friends to learning someone is a catfight fan. One prevailing image of the catfight fan is that of a hardcore misogynist who gets his thrill from violence towards women and/or the reduction of women to sex objects to fight over him. And if you are a women into it, you are seen as a victim of said violence or someone with anger issues. And I have encountered some who have admitted their love of catfights to their shrink and found suddenly THAT became the thing to be "cured".