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Fantasy vs Reality

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Offline npom

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Fantasy vs Reality
« on: September 12, 2009, 04:21:23 PM »
As someone who has had this fascination for over 30 years I sometimes wonder about fantasy vs. reality. As a lot of people on this board know I've always fantasized and written stories about my friend's mom, Nina, wrestling/catfighting other women and she always takes a beating in them.   Now, Nina was always a very sweet and nice woman so if I actually saw another woman beating her up, straddling her and doing some of the things to her that I write about in my stories, could I really sit and watch?  I really don't think so. I'd have to try to stop it even though this is something I have fantasized about on hundreds of occassions.  Now if it was an actual "wrestling match" in a ring, with a crowd and referee so it didn't get out of hand that might be a different story. On the outside I'd probably be rooting for her but on the inside I'd be rooting for her opponent.  I know othe people on the board often talk about wanting to see women close to them, wives, moms, etc. wrestle with other women.  What are your thoughts?  What would you really do if confronted with the reality?   

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Offline djcrash

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Re: Fantasy vs Reality
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2009, 06:16:13 PM »
I have been in this spot many years ago watching a friend of mine lose and it only took a few seconds for the fight to end. It was actually over by the time i started to move. For the winner it was a quick vicious win over a much sexier opponent and yes i did love the fight even though it was not the ending i would have liked.

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Offline rustedone

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Re: Fantasy vs Reality
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2009, 06:36:43 PM »
You raise an important question... which is probably why everyone seems to be skirting around it *keff* If I were with a female friend and it looked like a fight was imminent between her and another woman, I'd fling myself on that grenade and try to defuse the situation. I'd stick my own genitals in a blender than just sit back (or worse, try to provoke things) and watch for my own sexual gratification. You can have your fantasies, just keep them away from your reality.

At the risk of sounding like a total dork, here's a prime example of keeping fantasy and reality seperate: the character of Wonder Woman was created by a guy named William Moulton Marston, under the pretense of wanting to create a strong role-model for young girls like boys had in Superman and Batman. In truth Marston was a bondage fanatic, enough so he was convinced the world would be a better place if everyone learned to love being submissive (consult Google/Wikipedia for more, it's really nonsensical and hard to explain). As a result, 95% of the Wonder Woman comics Marston wrote featured bondage. Lots and lots of bondage. Look through this for a truckload of examples, though beware of rampant ads. Many comic geeks have wondered (no pun intended) why Wonder Woman hasn't caught on with the mainstream public as well as Superman, Batman, and Spiderman have. The primary reason is because her origins are so screwed up from being the tool of one man's fetish.

Fast forward several decades to the 80s. DC, in an effort to overhaul Wonder Woman for the modern era and wipe away the mess of her past, decides to start from scratch and create a new beginning for the character. To do this they assign well-known comic writer and artist George Perez to lead the retroactive continuity. Perez has a wrestling fetish; he's even written several scripts for sites like DT Productions for superhero-themed vids. But you'd never guess that going solely on his work on Wonder Woman. Sure she got into fights with supervillainesses now and again, but not on every other page of every bloody issue. He had a golden opportunity to indulge his fetish, but he didn't, because George Perez is a professional and he acts like one. As a result his Wonder Woman remake is considered some of the best stuff in 80s-era comics and damn good reading.

Bottom line: Have your fantasies. Don't let your fantasies have you.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2009, 11:10:35 PM by rustedone »
Best thing about being a fight fetishist? When compared to people who are into beastiality, vore, inflation, and this guy: http://www.lileks.com/institute/frahm/art1.html, you end up looking normal!

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Offline npom

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Re: Fantasy vs Reality
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2009, 10:38:29 PM »
Interesting info regarding the Wonder Woman comics.

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Offline Bear

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Re: Fantasy vs Reality
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2009, 06:51:57 AM »
This is an interesting topic, because there is a major distinction, at least for me.  As a long time high school teacher, I've seen my share, and broken up lots of catfights and never found any to be the least bit titillating.  Basically, they're ugly events.  As a young teacher, I was surprised to discover that I felt that way.  Movie catfights had always been a turn on, so I assumed that the real deal would be as well -- not so.  Maybe it's the fear that somebody might really get hurt that takes the edge off of a real fight, and in most cases, at least one of the girls has been embarrassed to the point of tears.  Neither situation is any fun to be around and certainly isn't a turn on.  So, I'll stick with the old western fights and intense wrestling videos.  Much more enjoyable. 

Thanks for provoking some thought.   

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Offline catfightlover40

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Re: Fantasy vs Reality
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2018, 03:27:23 PM »
As someone who has had this fascination for over 30 years I sometimes wonder about fantasy vs. reality. As a lot of people on this board know I've always fantasized and written stories about my friend's mom, Nina, wrestling/catfighting other women and she always takes a beating in them.   Now, Nina was always a very sweet and nice woman so if I actually saw another woman beating her up, straddling her and doing some of the things to her that I write about in my stories, could I really sit and watch?  I really don't think so. I'd have to try to stop it even though this is something I have fantasized about on hundreds of occassions.  Now if it was an actual "wrestling match" in a ring, with a crowd and referee so it didn't get out of hand that might be a different story. On the outside I'd probably be rooting for her but on the inside I'd be rooting for her opponent.  I know othe people on the board often talk about wanting to see women close to them, wives, moms, etc. wrestle with other women.  What are your thoughts?  What would you really do if confronted with the reality?   

I'll reflect on your examples first and quickly point out that there's such a thing as premature deaths in wrestling. It's not a guarantee to be safer than a brawl. The fact of the matter is, that compared to us guys, research and development into women's health is underappreciated. One would think that treating women as living goddesses coming out of the Stone Age happened because men and women did not understand how conception happens could not happen today... only to learn that fake pregnancy centers (religious non-health organizations masquerading as benevolent maternity centers) filled women's heads with utterly false, dangerous and stupid things.

It's such a strong adversarial effect that many conflate culturally and societally induced traits represented by women that it spills over to sexual fantasies. I'm not talking about the fighters being smoking hot babes, that's par for the course of the ultimate hetero male fantasy. I'm talking about favoring one's own perception about how are and to be instead of how they are actually as individuals.

A lot of fantasy revolves around straight women, who, by the touch of the magic wand (pun intended) somehow end up having sex. Taking a brief look at a titfighting topic where straight and bi/lesbian women compare notes, and yeah, that's so not the case. So much so, even the desired outcome is different. Yet another branch of fantasy translates conflicts between women into ones that unavoidably end in a physical confrontation. For the sake of argument, let's say we ignore women who by default act in an antisocial way, and focus only on those who exist in a community. When I was a lot younger, I used to think women either secretly fight a lot or don't because they lack muscle mass. Ask any mother how much that counts if you want to protect your kid.

Traditionally our male ancestors pre-agriculture did not care much for living or dying in a fight. Not out of bravery... rather a wild animal or a simple cut could just as easily kill them. Facing death every day does that to a person. Yet the women charged with protecting the community had to establish a link. A chain of survival that cannot tolerate outliers.

In addition to that comes aversion to such bad smells like profuse sweat, the sight of blood (both past indicators of grave sickness). Willing to step up to a fight that isn't a brawl requires courage from a woman, especially the risk of being shunned by her peers. The acceptance of women fighting compared to our history is young. In fact, I couldn't even name a woman today, whose mother and grandmother were fighters too.

In regards to your last question: I have diffused a fight that was over me, not because I felt I must defend my then girlfriend's honor, she was her own person, rather she wasn't dressed for the occasion. She told me before that she had a shirt ripping fight in a nightclub before, but we weren't alone that day.

I do think that as a teen I ruined my first relationship by trying to force the girl into fighting and pretty much talk about nothing else.
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Offline sinclairfan

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Re: Fantasy vs Reality
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2018, 04:02:47 PM »
But:  Imagine the satisfaction / fulfillment available 4,000 years ago of being a female, and knowing that if you could break a rival's nose or cheekbone in a fistfight, she was doomed to wear the scar / deformity forever as a permanent monument of her loss to you.

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Offline snw

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Re: Fantasy vs Reality
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2018, 04:27:23 PM »
        I've thought about this many times as well. My fantasy always revolved around seeing my gf/wife in a fight/wrestling/arm wrestling against one of my ex gf who was more endowed than she was. Like many of you I wouldn't want her hurt yet my fantasy was her losing a rather one sided fight. Now I never would want her or my ex hurt.
          I think maybe the fact I seen it was to be one sided is for the very reason of neither being hurt physically but only in embarrassment. By it being a fantasy where my ex was totally dominant and so much stronger it would let her win without having to do anymore damage than needed to control the situation and win without having serious damage done in the process. I guess you could say she would be so much superior that my wife wouldn't fight back very much or be able to really which is where the most injuries occur in a fight that is very competitive. In real life it likely would be closer and competitive assuming my wife did fight. However with girls I've seen their attitudes be so different that what you expect to be a close fight isn't.
         Where you have one girl is a fighter and wants to win and the other girl could fight back she is too afraid to which alows the other to be the only aggressor and easily control her opponent. Whether out of fear or just not as strong the effort to show who is in control doesn't require that much physical damage. In a real fight where both go at it till one can't I certainly wouldn't want to see that.
        All that said I think it's why I never really pictured my wife fighting anyone else other than my ex because I could see that fight going one sided because my ex was a dominant type and my wife was not competitive or aggressive. My wife would actually tell me stories about her wining in a fight against my ex but the longer we dated I asked her if she thought she would win she said she didn't think she would. She was ok telling me stories about her losing to my ex which made me see the fight being one sided in real life had it happened. Otherwise I couldn't see her being able to talk about losing to my ex to me but for the fact she would've believed it herself . Now mind you if she hadn't told those stories or had it seem to bother her by me asking her about the fights I'd never push the issue. She was secure enough in our relationship to talk about and be honest without worrying about it actually affected our relationship in a negative way.

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Offline npom

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Re: Fantasy vs Reality
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2018, 10:08:10 PM »
Thanks for the bump on this. Forgot I had even posted this it's been so long.  Like hearing the new perspectives on this.  Something I've always struggled with when I was younger but have come to realize as long as it is a fantasy it is ok.

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Offline karl butters

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Re: Fantasy vs Reality
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2018, 01:29:08 AM »
I think most of us are in agreement on this subject (a truly rare event). Most real catfights are quick, hard to tell what's going on, and most real-life effective moves are not sexy (as opposed to a sexy crotch grab/punch). The first time I mentioned to my wife a fantasy involving her getting beat up, I had to spend 20 minutes explaining that IRL I would never, ever want to see her beat up.

On youtube, I have found a few sexy real-life fights, but even the best of them do not compare to fights I can envision in my mind.

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Offline catfightlover40

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Re: Fantasy vs Reality
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2018, 06:33:29 PM »
But:  Imagine the satisfaction / fulfillment available 4,000 years ago of being a female, and knowing that if you could break a rival's nose or cheekbone in a fistfight, she was doomed to wear the scar / deformity forever as a permanent monument of her loss to you.

That’s “primal” at its best if you ask me. Love how the catfights in westerns... granted each are from someone’s unique vision, but always makes me wonder how many times women back then would square off for the townspeople all hanging in the saloon to spectate...

I've actually started a yet to be finished series that is in a western setting. The reality is, that most of us in every aspect, and all of us in certain aspects accept that anything older than 70 years is a custom in existence for forever. One of them is the oil rig bias. Since today's structures are long-lasting, we're prone to believe that a similar setting way back when was a similar draw.  Now, the one thing that hasn't changed is motivation. People choose remote jobs because they don't want to be around other humans, and yet, anybody who's not a psychopath needs skinship, in the form of a bar and available women.

One of the less talked aspects of the gold rush, as I came across it doing research is, that talented and amateur, but greedy adventurers were either not married or left their family behind on intention. The offering in women was practically zero, so the less physically capable ones and the young were made into "women". Therefore when the actual sex professionals arrived, they filled such a huge void that not only did they run towns in reality, but they could easily make demands.

That notwithstanding, this higher class of sex profession was back then equally as much an enterprise as it is today, so professional jealousy played a factor. 19th-century fashion was a prison in linen and silk, so in contrast, movies where production crews cheat, such fights were easiest almost nude.

Sinclairfan: based on available statistics, that transformed into an infection and she died. The heat wave put me off very much and it's a bit OT, but did you finish the Memel Saga?
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Offline sinclairfan

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Re: Fantasy vs Reality
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2018, 07:10:07 PM »


Sinclairfan: based on available statistics, that transformed into an infection and she died. The heat wave put me off very much and it's a bit OT, but did you finish the Memel Saga?
[/quote]

The Memel Saga was successfully concluded.  One of my favorites.

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Offline Drake

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Re: Fantasy vs Reality
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2018, 05:09:31 AM »
Are you serious???

Claiming to know what people were thinking and doing thousands of years ago?

I remember a documentary from the seventies that was shot in South America where they were filming some tribes that were so far removed from modern society that they weren't even aware of the modern world.

In those tribes, they would capture women from other tribes and they would be held as slaves and would regularly be abused and beaten by the women of the tribes who had captured them. Abused horribly even having feces thrown on them. They were also raped regularly.

This is about as close as we can come to understanding how prehistoric humans might have lived.

The idea that women fighting just sort of magically popped up in the last few decades is utterly ridiculous.

I wish I could remember the name of that film...Mondo...something.


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Offline catfightlover40

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Re: Fantasy vs Reality
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2018, 10:01:02 AM »
Are you serious???

Claiming to know what people were thinking and doing thousands of years ago?

I remember a documentary from the seventies that was shot in South America where they were filming some tribes that were so far removed from modern society that they weren't even aware of the modern world.

In those tribes, they would capture women from other tribes and they would be held as slaves and would regularly be abused and beaten by the women of the tribes who had captured them. Abused horribly even having feces thrown on them. They were also raped regularly.

This is about as close as we can come to understanding how prehistoric humans might have lived.

The idea that women fighting just sort of magically popped up in the last few decades is utterly ridiculous.

I wish I could remember the name of that film...Mondo...something.

Where I agree that female fight is nothing new, mondo is fake, they were shot for entertainment, masquerading as documentaries (Cannibal Holocaust, later repackaged as Porno Holocaust claimed to be that too). 2 weeks while doing aerial recon for destruction in the rainforest in Brazil, a new tribe using early human tools were discovered, or to be more precise, cataloged. We do know now about the Homo Erectus that they were lazy f*cks, unlike other early humans, they've only used what was closest to them, they didn't even bother to try and scale a cliff for better equipment on top.

As for the claiming to know part, cultural anthropologists and ethnologists work together with paleontologists to compare the tear of movements on the bones with customs of more reserved communities to ascertain how much we have changed.
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Offline Drake

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Re: Fantasy vs Reality
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2018, 03:36:01 PM »
Are you serious???

Claiming to know what people were thinking and doing thousands of years ago?

I remember a documentary from the seventies that was shot in South America where they were filming some tribes that were so far removed from modern society that they weren't even aware of the modern world.

In those tribes, they would capture women from other tribes and they would be held as slaves and would regularly be abused and beaten by the women of the tribes who had captured them. Abused horribly even having feces thrown on them. They were also raped regularly.

This is about as close as we can come to understanding how prehistoric humans might have lived.

The idea that women fighting just sort of magically popped up in the last few decades is utterly ridiculous.

I wish I could remember the name of that film...Mondo...something.

Where I agree that female fight is nothing new, mondo is fake, they were shot for entertainment, masquerading as documentaries (Cannibal Holocaust, later repackaged as Porno Holocaust claimed to be that too). 2 weeks while doing aerial recon for destruction in the rainforest in Brazil, a new tribe using early human tools were discovered, or to be more precise, cataloged. We do know now about the Homo Erectus that they were lazy f*cks, unlike other early humans, they've only used what was closest to them, they didn't even bother to try and scale a cliff for better equipment on top.

As for the claiming to know part, cultural anthropologists and ethnologists work together with paleontologists to compare the tear of movements on the bones with customs of more reserved communities to ascertain how much we have changed.

I wasn't talking about "Cannibal Holocaust". You can still rent the props from that film.

I've been working in the film industry all my life and I know when I'm watching something that is fake. The Mondo films were just collections of various film projects that would shock audiences.  The films placed emphasis on footage of taboo subjects such as death and sex both real and fake. I'll try to find a copy when I have time and post a link to it so people can decide for themselves if it's real or fake.

So, what  anthropologist claims to know that women didn't used to fight with each other???

We also know (from evidence of injuries on their remains) that early humans fought with each other and killed each other. So how could you possibly conclude that the women didn't fight with each other?

Here is an article about evidence of human violence including a woman who was killed by a projectile 10,000 years ago...

http://time.com/4189061/nature-journal-kenya-warfare/
« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 04:36:35 PM by Drake »