[pollman]

Good points RBB,

I'd say CCC are far higher quality in production too. The video image and clarity on CCC downloads are very clear compared to ECC whose download videos seem to be of an extremely low definition and still seem to be at a quality sub VHS for it's downloads. Though I love ECC, it seems to have videos of a quality we'd expect from 10 years ago. It needs to upgrade its camera equipment urgently. A cheap camera phone can produce better screen resolution than what is seen in ECC videos unfortunately, on that point specifically ECC are years behind their competitors. Shame really, as the catfights most of the time are very good.

[DoYouKnowWhoIAm?]

Yeah, I've looked at CCC's Flickr gallery. We have some real treats in store it seems. Marla vs Virginia should be a great fight, also the rematches between Marla and Charlie and Becky and Roma.
With the new matches coming up soon - I hope - from ECC and monthly releases by Catzreview here in the UK, 2012 should be a great year for fans of unscripted catfights.
If CCC were to start filming longer fights between some of the great ladies they have on their books now, I'd certainly be interested in watching them. I'd suggest best out of three or maybe five falls though, rather than to a stipulated time limit. That way, you know the fight is going to end with a submission scored by the winning lady.
Regarding RBB's point about the level of aggression, I think CCC and ECC have that about right already. I don't actually think that the ECNWC matches were any more violent than the ones we are talking about here, just a lot "dirtier", with clothes ripping, wedgies and direct attacks to the breasts and vagina.
To get girls like Marla, Virginia and Tegan to put up with treatment like that you would have to pay them a LOT of money. That's why ECNWC stopped filming. They just couldn't make enough dough to cover their costs.
I don't want to be disrespectful to the girls who work for Home-made-catfights, but they simply don't compare with the CCC and ECC line ups.

[pollman]

Have you ever produced a catfight or paid women to fight?

Then I guess you have no idea what you are talking about either.

I am assuming they will not fight as hard for 15 minutes as they do for three or five. You are assuming they will. We are both assuming.

If getting American women to fight this hard for 15 minutes is so easy, why aren't more companies doing it?

Zzzzzzzzz.

[pollman]

So go on Steve, explain to everyone how writing 'zzzzzzzzz' is an ad hominem attack? 'Zzzzzzzz' is an expression of how bored I am with your circular comments.

Ad hominem is a reference to personal attributes as opposed to dealing with the points of an argument. So how is writing 'zzzzzzzzz' referring to your personal attributes, character, personality?

You've sort of shot yourself in the foot there by using a philosophical term that is not applicable to someone writing 'zzzzzzzzz'. In other words, you don't even know what the term 'ad hominem' means.

You dumbass, (now the latter was an example of ad hominem, but writing 'zzzzzzz' is definitely not)

Tip, before using a latin term, make sure it is first applicable to what you are referring to, otherwise it makes you look foolish.

[oh, and if you do want me to respond to something you've written, let's say when you stated: 'If getting American women to fight this hard for 15 minutes is so easy, why aren't more companies doing it?' The simple answer would be, producers have been doing this for the last 25 years, haven't you noticed?]

Like I said, the best thing for you to do now is to sit down and give me a paw, [look, I did an ad hominem]

[pollman]

Why do they have to be American companies? For what reason?

Also, what exactly is the point you're trying to demonstrate here? Because, I can't see any other than a young kid desperately trying to save face after coming up with a particularly daft argument about all catfights should be one submission and then the fight should be stopped; which is a particularly stupid argument to start with.

You're trying to prove a point by arrogantly demanding a list of companies that make catfights over 15 minutes long. We all know, most of the catfight industry makes catfights fitting that description, DWW, Foxy Combat, Vira's Apartment Catfights, Catfight Haven, Bitchfight UK, Catzreview, Festelle, Crystal, APL, Catfighting Angel, ECC, ECNWC. Some of these have clips, and the odd catfight from some of these companies is short.

But I have to say here Steve, you're sounding incredibly dumb in what you're trying to prove now and really adding nothing new to your circular argument.

It's as simple as this, people don't like short catfights because with a longer catfight you get more entertainment. It's as simple as that, what else do I have to say to get that through your thick skull?

[pollman]

Wow! How boring a life you must live. I got to the end of the first paragraph and then just stopped reading as it was too dull and pointless to continue.

The fact that no producers in the world today seem to be in agreement with you, that catfights over the last 25 years seem to go against everything you've written in your circular argument. Even CCC are beginning to realize that longer catfights would benefit their company, due to several fans complaining about how unnecessarily  short their catfights are. The points you make Steve are irrelevant because you exist in a fantasy world disconnected from the real world.

I call you an idiot, because you are a perfect example of an idiot, and idiots are never actually aware that they are idiots, they rely upon other people to point this out to them. They are usually too idiotic to realize their own idiocy.

Your argument excessively repeats itself, you don't really ever listen, what you say is laughable at best, and it's so tedious to even respond now to your inept attempt at saving face this has now become an incredibly pointless debate. I'm sure what I've just said will be ignored by you, because you are a complete idiot who never listens. You'll argue until 2016 stating that all catfights need to be less than 5 minutes and are rubbish if they continue beyond the first submission.

Thankfully, producers have, and will continue to ignore such an extreme minority quirky preference that you have when seeing women fight. You know why Steve?

Because you are the one guy that all catfights fans loathe and hate, you're the guy who splits up girls and stops catfights just as they're getting good.

Case closed

[KatFiteFan]

First want to reiterate that I am, like every catfight video producer I have had the pleasure to meet,  a Catfight fan, first and foremost way before I got into producing.

I am a consumer of other companies that produce product that appeals to me.

What I have found most interesting about this thread is the fact that we used to produce long format womens wrestling, matter of fact our first few matches were like that. and they did not sell.

Then Briella Jaden http://www.briellajaden.com/came along.  
When she fought Boo-Boo and a real fight broke out, even though it was short.. it sold!

With that revelation we changed our format and found that people paid for shorter, more intense matches than longer ones.

What we thought was hey this is what the customer wants.

Looking back though and taking into account the comments on here, I think maybe our first matches did not sell because we were an unknown entity in a very competitive market.

 What I would hope is that now that everyone knows the kind or product we produce, if we did move back to longer format fights that they will sell as well as the short ones.

I know we can not please everyone with every match but I do want a happy, satisfied customer.

MIKE

[pollman]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your considered and intelligent post.

There is one very important point to make on the subject of the Briella vs. Boo Boo catfight. It didn't sell because it was short, it sold because it was a fantastic catfight that contained that precious rarity and what is to the catfight fan pure ambrosia... genuine needle. When a catfight of such genuine competitiveness, emotionality, bitchiness, trash-talking, hard fighting, sheer ruthlessness and the fact that Brielle is hot, cocky, determined, arrogant, and hates losing; plus the fact that her opponent Boo boo is out to upstage Briella and is not impressed by her at all regarding her as a prima donna that needs to be put down and beaten.... we have a classic catfight on our hands. The word gets around like wild fire, catfight fans talk to catfight fans, a genuinely good catfight sells like hotcakes, it's length becomes an irrelevance.

The fact that it was cut short not by the producer, but by tempers being lost, and the catfight had to be prematurely terminated probably due to one girl refusing to carry on indicates it was scheduled to last longer. And in a situation where a catfight fan had to choose which alternate world he would prefer to exist in between the one we now inhabit where the fight ended prematurely, or the reality where Briella fought on and the catfight continued in its nasty bitter bitchy trash talking excellence, a catfight fan would have to be a bit of a fool to say 'no' to seeing the continuation of such a mouth wateringly rare example of genuine female ferocity and mutual animosity between two hot looking catfighting women.

And when these rare nasty emotional spats of mutual animosity randomly occur in catfighting and continue beyond a few minutes they become catfights of legend, because they have a quality about them that allows them to be re-watched ad infinitum due to the fact that they embody the ideals of what all genuine catfight fans want to see when two women fight each other, a genuinely feminine bitchy need to put down, defeat, and humiliate a rival female via ruthless and aggressive means that ensures victory.

But such a fight as the Briella/Boo Boo catfight to have continued, would have been a plus as opposed to a minus. Think: ECC 43 Tracey vs. Alex / ECC 41 Cat vs. Michelle / ECC 47 Lexie vs. Johanna. Genuine bitchy spats that are of a longer length.

Therefore, Briella vs. Boo Boo was fantastic not because of its length, but for its other amazing qualities.

I think therefore the excluded middle is the way forward, neither the 5 minute fights of some of the CCC titles, nor the 30 min fights of ECC, but a middle ground of 15 to 20 minute fights seems very appealing to me personally. Something both DWW and Foxy Combat discovered several years ago as the preferred happy medium of catfight fans, neither artificially too long or frustratingly too short.

p.s. Amazing photo by the way. Thanks.

[DoYouKnowWhoIAm?]

a genuinely good catfight sells like hotcakes, it's length becomes an irrelevance.

Very true. Exactly the point I was making earlier in this thread.
I also think that SOMETIMES a short, first submission wins it format delivers the goods better than a longer fight, for the reasons outlined by Steve in one of his comments. It all depends on the girls involved and how they react to the situation.
Personally, I think a mixture of short, sudden death fights and longer, best out of three submission matches involving the same girls would be good.

[East Coast Cats]

There is a lady named Scarlett who has fought more than once for ECC. Her first fight was about 25 minutes and her second one about 6 minutes (don't quote me cause I haven't timed either yet). In the much longer fight her determination and skill were even more evident the longer the fight went.

[East Coast Cats]

Haven't yet priced the longer Scarlett fight. The shorter Scarlett fight is about a 9 minute video, but approximately 6 minutes is all fighting. Probably selling for around $10...

[DoYouKnowWhoIAm?]

Looking forward to seeing Scarlett fighting for CCC. I wonder how she'd fare against Marla?

Sometimes fights that end earlier than expected are ok. Other times, there is a feeling of unfinished business, as in one ECC match where the lady who scored the first submission had to pull out immediately afterwards feeling ill and was declared the winner. This seemed a little unfair on the 'loser', who was pacing herself for a longer fight and still raring to go.
Generally, I think these short fights work better if both girls know from the start that the first submission wins it. That way, they don't have to worry about conserving energy and can it everything they have from the off. Also, they will probably resist submitting more if they know it's sudden death with no way back for the girl who gives first.

BTW Steve, if you havn't seen any ECC fights, I think you'd enjoy them. The style of fighting is similar to CCC with maybe a bit more wrestling or grappling involved - probably because the fights are longer. I really like both these producers work.

[East Coast Cats]

 Scarlett vs Marla would be a unique match. Scarlett's 6 minute fight at ECC is a good one. No holding back at all, not Scarlett's style to pace herself. She has gone hard from the start in all of her  ECC catfights.

[East Coast Cats]

Tegan vs Marla appears to be quite good, well worth the money to find out which one won..

[DoYouKnowWhoIAm?]

Scarlett vs Marla would be a unique match.

It certainly would!

BTW, any idea when you are going to release the fight between Irish and Blair that you mentioned in another thread? I'm looking really forward to seeing that one.