[Capital City Catfights]

If they don't, you could look into maybe a best of 3 falls type thing? You'd still have the intensity of a shorter fight, but you'd have the length that others look for as well. Just an idea.

Some of earlier fights were submissions over multiple rounds.

We might go back to that if it sells the best.

I will share that to do something like what ECNWC does, which is what I feel the roughest and most real fight (street fight style) out there now that Crystal is no longer making videos, does not turn a profit at all.

Bob does that as a labor of love and loses thousands doing those types of matches. If you ever wanted to kick a producer in the balls, post one of his fights on Youtube or Dailymotion. He spends close to $5,000 total on each fight.

The only way I could ever do something like that is one serious money backer who wanted to see the fights in person.

I could probably give a days worth of real fights (5-6 fights) to a person to sit and watch for about $10,000.

Pretty women don't beat the shit out of each other for cheap.

[Capital City Catfights]

Interesting, how does he stay in the business I wonder given that? Homemade Catfights BTW is pretty intense too, maybe a bit closer to the Crystal style. So ECNWC isn't the only rough fight company out there left, and might not even be the roughest given that.

How long have you been filming for him? Curious as well, if you're not into that style of fight why you do it.

He loses money. I would almost look at ECNWC as a charity to the catfighting world. I will say that if no one bought Bob's DVDs, he could not be in business. I am going to estimate that for every $1.00 he spends he gets $.75 back in sales. So he loses four figures every year on this.

The first fight I filmed for him was Brittany vs Cierra. We have filmed two other times since then, the last being about a month ago, and I would expect two DVDs from him in the next year. He takes a long time to edit the footage.

I love his style of fight, I just wish they were shorter so you could get more matchups. But as we have discussed on here, there are people that love the long fight as well.  The money that he spends creates an level of intensity that is very hard to create for any producer.

If you wonder why I do it, think of someone taking you to the greatest steakhouse in the world for free, but instead of rare, they cook the steak medium. I would rather have it rare, but I am not going to turn down the medium steak.

Who out there do you think is an intense as ECNWC?

[DoYouKnowWhoIAm?]

Interesting, how does he stay in the business I wonder given that? Homemade Catfights BTW is pretty intense too, maybe a bit closer to the Crystal style. So ECNWC isn't the only rough fight company out there left, and might not even be the roughest given that.

How long have you been filming for him? Curious as well, if you're not into that style of fight why you do it.

He loses money. I would almost look at ECNWC as a charity to the catfighting world. I will say that if no one bought Bob's DVDs, he could not be in business. I am going to estimate that for every $1.00 he spends he gets $.75 back in sales. So he loses four figures every year on this.

No disrespect, but Bob is his own worst enemy in some ways. If he provided downloads as well as dvds, and posted short clips on youtube himself, with a link back to his site, the way you do, I'm sure he would make a LOT more money.
From my own experience, I'd been seeing ECNWC fights that people posted on youtube and dailymotion, with no credit or mention of the producer, for maybe two years. Several times via "comments", I asked the poster who the producer was, but got no reply.
I'd never even heard of ECNWC till I saw it mentioned in this forum and decided to find the site and check it out for myself.
Once there, I realised that I'd found the producer of the "mystery fights" I'd seen on youtube etc and immediately began looking for the site's downloads section. Alas. no joy!
Now I'm not saying I would NEVER order dvds from a producer, but I guess I just like the instant gratification buzz that downloads provide.
Result? I havn't bought any of Bob's productions at all. If he'd publicised himself and provided downloads, I'm pretty sure I'd have bought plenty by now.

[Capital City Catfights]

"...Can't hang with the Big Dogs, Stay on the porch"  Todd Anthony Shaw aka Too $hort - a modern American poet

SA

So once again you are saying people who like shorter fights are more or less stupid?

This is why people walk away from boards you are on and threads you post on, it just resorts to name calling and I am smart you are stupid mentally. It gets very tired, very quickly.

I film for ECNWC and the longer matches, to me, just are not as entertaining. To Bob, they are. I'm not calling him wrong for his opinion or tastes. That is how civil people speak to each other,

Riiiight...Step 1:  Try to put words in people's mouths accusing them of saying things they've never said.  Step 2:  Run away to Yahoo where you and the 7 people interested in your product content can start a cyber-circle jerk commentary that  blows smoke up your ass 24/7 about how great you are and what a great product you have.  Step 3:  Blame everyone except the man in the mirror when your project flops. 

SA

The project is not flopping.

You seem like a smart guy with a pretty deep history in the catfight fetish. You sure this all you want to talk about?

[DoYouKnowWhoIAm?]

JohnMoog, what you wrote about the length of time needed for a fully developed erotic experience is very true, but it's up to me how long I take to watch a particular video from start to finish. Using freeze frame and the slider on my media player I can make a short fight last a long time! I can treat it it like a series of photo slides if I want, knowing I can hit "play" and turn it back into a video any time I want. If you havn't tried that trick, it's a great way to get maximum pleasure from a short fight.

I do that all the time.  It's just that the scenes I replay over and again, the ones I pause and just marvel at, are never in the first 3 minutes.  In another thread IIRC, you talked about a woman becoming more attractive by virtue of fighting.  For me, that transformation continues, indeed if all is right accelerates, over the course of a match.  Bobbi at the bitter end of ACA 70 is a different Bobbi than at the beginning, if not kinder maybe gentler, certainly humbler and vastly sexier.  What happens bears no relation to losing one quick fall.  And then there's what becomes of Bobbi at the end of ACA 93.  Jade couldn't have pulled that off until they'd gotten really, really familiar.

Yeah, when it comes to erotic wrestling, like the academy turns out, a longer match is essential. The typical academy theme ... two strong women meet on the mat as equals, 30-40 mins later one has become subordinate to the other, no longer a rival but a willing and conquered subject. It takes time for a relationship like that to develop for REAL, and to watch it happening, minute by minute, is a fascinating and incredibly erotic experience. Especially when the girl who ends up in the sub role is a normally dominant type like Bobbi.

Just wanted to add something to this comment regarding what you said about the transformation that comes over a woman during the course of a fight, John.
I think that in a short fight, where both women know that the first submission is going to mean victory for one and defeat for the other, that transformation, like everything else in the fight, happens more quickly.
True, in a short match you are never going to get such an extreme situation of complete victory for one and utter, abject defeat for the other as we saw in, eg, the Artemis vs Lia Lebowe fight we were discussing once, where Lia, in effect, kept beating Artemis over and over again till the losers heart and will to win just broke completely. But then, you rarely see a situation like that in a real, unscripted catfight, no matter how long it goes on for. That's why Lia vs Artemis is such a memorable battle.

[DoYouKnowWhoIAm?]

No disrespect, but Bob is his own worst enemy in some ways. If he provided downloads as well as dvds, and posted short clips

As much as I would love to see his product downloaded, I think he's much smarter not offering ECNWC in download format.  I've seen complete matches for free posted all over the net from nearly every producer that offers their product for download.  Am I going to pay for that product once I've seen it for free on the net?  Probably not, but I'm damn sure planning to spend  $ buying ECNWC product content after seeing Camille and Simone(?) mentioned a few weeks ago. The sound track was missing in the clip I saw on the net so I wouldn't have any problem buying that action as long as it was packaged with a couple of  other matches (which it is).  I will start to spend my $ with ENCWC in the hopes that they will continue providing quality FvsF content that I love to watch.  The clip I saw was batting 1K in nearly every aspect and area that I feel makes fantastic FvsF product content.

SA

Do you mean Camille and Mia? I watched that on youtube (with sound) only last week. I just did a quick check and the guy who posted it has had his account closed for multiple breaches of copyright etc. Nevertheless, it WAS posted and plenty of other ECNWC fights have been too. I've now seen six full fights of theirs myself without paying for any of them. I'm not proud of that but I don't feel too guilty either. If I come across them, I'm gonna watch them, who wouldn't? And as I said, if they sold downloads I'd be buying them, for sure.
Not offering downloads is no safeguard against piracy. I'm no tech guy, but even I know how to rip, edit and convert dvds.

[Paulzzy]

No disrespect, but Bob is his own worst enemy in some ways. If he provided downloads as well as dvds, and posted short clips

As much as I would love to see his product downloaded, I think he's much smarter not offering ECNWC in download format.  I've seen complete matches for free posted all over the net from nearly every producer that offers their product for download.  Am I going to pay for that product once I've seen it for free on the net?  Probably not, but I'm damn sure planning to spend  $ buying ECNWC product content after seeing Camille and Simone(?) mentioned a few weeks ago. The sound track was missing in the clip I saw on the net so I wouldn't have any problem buying that action as long as it was packaged with a couple of  other matches (which it is).  I will start to spend my $ with ENCWC in the hopes that they will continue providing quality FvsF content that I love to watch.  The clip I saw was batting 1K in nearly every aspect and area that I feel makes fantastic FvsF product content.

SA

   I don't know Bob, and have only seen a couple ECNWC videos because of privacy issues with the mail, but he most likely IS doing the correct thing.  There's almost no way to protect intellectual property on the internet unless you've got boatloads of cash and lawyers that only the biggest producers have-and even at that they can't stop it. 

  I once asked a producer who was dogged in his fight to keep his product from being stolen what would keep someone in another country from buying his downloads selling them on a foreign language website as their own. He said basically "nothing"-unless he was alerted to it, and even that is a headache dealing with foreign web servers, not to mention legal fees.

  Another problem is the privacy issue amongst the performers.   Anyone else notice a lot of the women doing topless and nude videos (at least here in the US) are adult "actresses/models", and that the "talent pool" is quite shallow?

  If you go to YouTube and put in "Bobbi vs Charli" you'll see a clip of Academy Videos #137(?).  That video was shot around 1997-1998, years before YouTube even existed, and the girls were paid about $500 each.  The clip has been viewed on YouTube over 1.1 MILLION times....maybe a reason the strippers are sticking to stripping?   

[Paulzzy]

"...Can't hang with the Big Dogs, Stay on the porch"  Todd Anthony Shaw aka Too $hort - a modern American poet

SA

So once again you are saying people who like shorter fights are more or less stupid?

This is why people walk away from boards you are on and threads you post on, it just resorts to name calling and I am smart you are stupid mentally. It gets very tired, very quickly.

I film for ECNWC and the longer matches, to me, just are not as entertaining. To Bob, they are. I'm not calling him wrong for his opinion or tastes. That is how civil people speak to each other,

Riiiight...Step 1:  Try to put words in people's mouths accusing them of saying things they've never said.  Step 2:  Run away to Yahoo where you and the 7 people interested in your product content can start a cyber-circle jerk commentary that  blows smoke up your ass 24/7 about how great you are and what a great product you have.  Step 3:  Blame everyone except the man in the mirror when your project flops. 

SA

The project is not flopping.

You seem like a smart guy with a pretty deep history in the catfight fetish. You sure this all you want to talk about?

   “Don’t let the noise of others’ opinions drown out your own inner voice."-Steve Jobs.

[JohnMoog]

I think that in a short fight, where both women know that the first submission is going to mean victory for one and defeat for the other, that transformation, like everything else in the fight, happens more quickly.
True, in a short match you are never going to get such an extreme situation of complete victory for one and utter, abject defeat for the other as we saw in, eg, the Artemis vs Lia Lebowe fight we were discussing once, where Lia, in effect, kept beating Artemis over and over again till the losers heart and will to win just broke completely.

At its best, a brief match can strongly engage the imagination in that direction.  Here’s a nice clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjWTVGk8Z9k

There are many reasons why I shouldn’t like this, which I won’t list (Ofecteau is free to chime in, of course), yet I find it very powerful.  Of the little time there, as much as half is quality time that cute, game Tori spends helpless, being ominously choked from behind in full camera view.  The sexy expression of moderate discomfort on Tori’s face is due solely to Cat’s voluntary restraint in this sort of light commercial promo.  Then when Tori tries to make a dignified show at the end, shaking her head at the outcome, I like to think she really knows that if this had been more serious, as suggested by the cage and all, things could have gone far worse for her.  Come to think of it, when CCC talks about women who “beat the shit out of each other,” when you use a “real, unscripted catfight” for reference, those things are definitely there in the background for me.

[Capital City Catfights]

What makes a catfight or wrestling video great for one person will not make it great for another.

You will hear producers chime in that what they have is the best or the most real or the sexiest. Well that is probably true in their own individual prespective. And there is nothing wrong with that. If there are 1,000 catfight fans and 300 really like what I am doing, then I am happy. If another 300 like Double Trouble, then I really don't think they are going to crossover too much into what I am doing.

It is interesting that you talk about the lack of talent in the USA, that might be true, and it might not be. CCC has been filming for about 10 months now in one portion of the country and we have found 13 different women willing to do unscripted matches to one degree or another and filmed them. So there might be talent. But then again, our girls get pulled away by other companies the second their face is out on the street. That confuses me. I would think it would be just as easy to find talent in one city as it is another.

I really do not think there is a lack of talent, but a lack of producers. If I were to open shop in Dallas or Houston or Las Vegas, I would think I would be just as sucessful. One of the keys is finding a way to pay the women what they are worth. If you think two women are going to give you a good match for $50 or $100, you are probably not going to succeed.

We at CCC have figured out our break even point for sales. I know the figure it costs to produce a fight, and if we do not reach it, we will shut down the shop. We do not want this to become a charity. We also have the advantge of being able to do all of our filming and editing in house. We can film something and have it edited on clips4sale in under 24 hours.

Why do the foriegn women do not seem like porn stars? Well maybe over there they are porn stars?

But there are also a lack of producers for a reason. No one is getting rich off of this. Hopefully it can at least support the hobby, but with times as down as they are, I don't think these are banner years for the industry.

[walker]

Something that kills my interest is a producer who greatly exaggerates the fights. You go out and buy the damn thing, and it turns out to be average at best. So be careful when you throw out "amazing" for such quickie fights.

[Paulzzy]

What makes a catfight or wrestling video great for one person will not make it great for another.

You will hear producers chime in that what they have is the best or the most real or the sexiest. Well that is probably true in their own individual prespective. And there is nothing wrong with that. If there are 1,000 catfight fans and 300 really like what I am doing, then I am happy. If another 300 like Double Trouble, then I really don't think they are going to crossover too much into what I am doing.

It is interesting that you talk about the lack of talent in the USA, that might be true, and it might not be. CCC has been filming for about 10 months now in one portion of the country and we have found 13 different women willing to do unscripted matches to one degree or another and filmed them. So there might be talent. But then again, our girls get pulled away by other companies the second their face is out on the street. That confuses me. I would think it would be just as easy to find talent in one city as it is another.

I really do not think there is a lack of talent, but a lack of producers. If I were to open shop in Dallas or Houston or Las Vegas, I would think I would be just as sucessful. One of the keys is finding a way to pay the women what they are worth. If you think two women are going to give you a good match for $50 or $100, you are probably not going to succeed.

We at CCC have figured out our break even point for sales. I know the figure it costs to produce a fight, and if we do not reach it, we will shut down the shop. We do not want this to become a charity. We also have the advantge of being able to do all of our filming and editing in house. We can film something and have it edited on clips4sale in under 24 hours.

Why do the foriegn women do not seem like porn stars? Well maybe over there they are porn stars?

But there are also a lack of producers for a reason. No one is getting rich off of this. Hopefully it can at least support the hobby, but with times as down as they are, I don't think these are banner years for the industry.

  I was specifically talking about topless and nude.  You have 13 decent looking women willing to do topless or nude catfight videos of one sort or another??

  I don't know-are the women of DWW European porn actresses?  I assumed them to be dancers, for the most part.

  I'm guessing the answer to both questions are negative.

  Your girls get pulled away the second their faces hit the street?    How would anyone know how to contact your girls directly?  You'd be a fool to make this info known.  How many catfighter producers are there walking the streets in your area, looking for talent to steal from a company in existence barely a year, that practically no one has heard of?

  Not to sound like the haters, sounds like some major bullshitting....

[Capital City Catfights]

Something that kills my interest is a producer who greatly exaggerates the fights. You go out and buy the damn thing, and it turns out to be average at best. So be careful when you throw out "amazing" for such quickie fights.

Walker is a troll trying to discredit othe producers.

Please note when he registered.

You seem to not like my company or Super Action Fights.

What companies do you like?

[DoYouKnowWhoIAm?]

No disrespect, but Bob is his own worst enemy in some ways. If he provided downloads as well as dvds, and posted short clips

As much as I would love to see his product downloaded, I think he's much smarter not offering ECNWC in download format.  I've seen complete matches for free posted all over the net from nearly every producer that offers their product for download.  Am I going to pay for that product once I've seen it for free on the net?  Probably not, but I'm damn sure planning to spend  $ buying ECNWC product content after seeing Camille and Simone(?) mentioned a few weeks ago. The sound track was missing in the clip I saw on the net so I wouldn't have any problem buying that action as long as it was packaged with a couple of  other matches (which it is).  I will start to spend my $ with ENCWC in the hopes that they will continue providing quality FvsF content that I love to watch.  The clip I saw was batting 1K in nearly every aspect and area that I feel makes fantastic FvsF product content.

SA

   I don't know Bob, and have only seen a couple ECNWC videos because of privacy issues with the mail, but he most likely IS doing the correct thing.  There's almost no way to protect intellectual property on the internet unless you've got boatloads of cash and lawyers that only the biggest producers have-and even at that they can't stop it.  

  I once asked a producer who was dogged in his fight to keep his product from being stolen what would keep someone in another country from buying his downloads selling them on a foreign language website as their own. He said basically "nothing"-unless he was alerted to it, and even that is a headache dealing with foreign web servers, not to mention legal fees.

  Another problem is the privacy issue amongst the performers.   Anyone else notice a lot of the women doing topless and nude videos (at least here in the US) are adult "actresses/models", and that the "talent pool" is quite shallow?

  If you go to YouTube and put in "Bobbi vs Charli" you'll see a clip of Academy Videos #137(?).  That video was shot around 1997-1998, years before YouTube even existed, and the girls were paid about $500 each.  The clip has been viewed on YouTube over 1.1 MILLION times....maybe a reason the strippers are sticking to stripping?  

Not convinced. Like I said, easiest thing in the world to rip and copy a dvd. IMO the only people put off by the no downloads policy are potential customers like you and me.

[DoYouKnowWhoIAm?]

I think that in a short fight, where both women know that the first submission is going to mean victory for one and defeat for the other, that transformation, like everything else in the fight, happens more quickly.
True, in a short match you are never going to get such an extreme situation of complete victory for one and utter, abject defeat for the other as we saw in, eg, the Artemis vs Lia Lebowe fight we were discussing once, where Lia, in effect, kept beating Artemis over and over again till the losers heart and will to win just broke completely.

At its best, a brief match can strongly engage the imagination in that direction.  Here’s a nice clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjWTVGk8Z9k

There are many reasons why I shouldn’t like this, which I won’t list (Ofecteau is free to chime in, of course), yet I find it very powerful.  Of the little time there, as much as half is quality time that cute, game Tori spends helpless, being ominously choked from behind in full camera view.  The sexy expression of moderate discomfort on Tori’s face is due solely to Cat’s voluntary restraint in this sort of light commercial promo.  Then when Tori tries to make a dignified show at the end, shaking her head at the outcome, I like to think she really knows that if this had been more serious, as suggested by the cage and all, things could have gone far worse for her.  Come to think of it, when CCC talks about women who “beat the shit out of each other,” when you use a “real, unscripted catfight” for reference, those things are definitely there in the background for me.

Nice little scrap. Looks like maybe the oil wrestling is a bit of light entertainment on an MMA card?
If you liked that, you might enjoy the CCC fight too!
One of the things that gives Marla vs Charlie a bit of extra atmosphere and authenticity is the fact that it's fought in a real ring, in what looks like a bona fide boxing gym. Seeing two pretty girls going at it submission catfight style in a setting like that really works for me.